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crying_liberty

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Quite by accident and only because my TV stays on Fox, I caught part of Obama presiding over the UN.  Jaw clenched as I watched His Lowness, I thought out loud, “Obama you are a narcissistic pinhead.”

I said it a year ago: Obama wants to rule the world!  As I watched I felt like I was watching an Austin Powers spoof movie, as one terrorist leader after another hit the stage, beginning with our current president. His speech reinforced for me my belief that Obama is the 17-year old brat who has been surrounded by sycophants and suckups his entire life. He inherits his dad’s multi-trillion dollar nation, and has no idea how to run it.  So he wings it. Everybody around him tell him what a great job he is doing—as Rome burns.

In order for Obama to rule the world, a first and very necessary step is the ruination of the greatest country ever in the history of the world, and the one that he supposedly serves.  Obama must show America that she is not as beautiful as she thinks.

Here is what Obama said:

I took office at a time when many around the world had come to view America with skepticism and distrust. Part of this was due to misperceptions and misinformation about my country. Part of this was due to opposition to specific policies, and a belief that on certain critical issues, America has acted unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others. This has fed an almost reflexive anti-Americanism, which too often has served as an excuse for our collective inaction. Like all of you, my responsibility is to act in the interest of my nation and my people, and I will never apologize for defending those interests. But it is my deeply held belief that in the year 2009 – more than at any point in human history – the interests of nations and peoples are shared.

It irks me that Obama believes that our interests are shared.  Our interests could be shared, if Iran didn’t want to obliterate Israel, for example. However, presently that is not a shared interest of the United States.

Obama courts the world, telling them how he appeases them—closing Guantanamo Bay, ending torture, ending weapons systems, ridding the world of nuclear weapons, and so on, so that the world will hopefully like us better.  Essentially Obama wants what every Ms. America contestant wants…world peace!  So do I!

And while we are at it, I’d like the goons who have broken into my car four times to bring back all my stuff!  And I want the kid who held up my cousin and his girlfriend at knifepoint to return his wallet…and to buy my cousin a new pair of underwear!

As for all the world’s problems, I believe that we are citizens of the world…to a degree.  However it is not the responsibility of America to be the surrogate parents of everybody.  I liken it to my own life where there is a long list of my friends and family who have come to me for help.  However the list of those who can help me is far too short.

I have traveled the world extensively, and I have never seen a commercial to help America’s poor or America’s children.  America is in a financial crisis, and world isn’t passing the plate to help us.  When America was attacked on 9-11, much of the world celebrated, what they hoped would be the destruction of America. Many of these celebrants were speaking at the UN.

Here’s the wrap:

crying_libertyExcept for America, all the speakers at the UN had nothing but their self-interest on display. That’s easy to do, when your self-interest is to denigrate America.  It’s even easier, when America’s own president has already greased the skids for you!

Obama wants America to lower itself to the level of the rest of the world, as opposed to challenging the world to raise itself to our standards.  Obama considers American exceptionalism to be elitist, when American exceptionalism is in fact a tribute to the rest of the world.  America represents the world.

America is a beautiful woman with a few slight flaws.  Instead of showcasing her beauty, Obama magnifies her flaws.  He does this, because he knows that she is far too beautiful for him.  If he can put her in her place, then he is free to pursue all women.  And like his ancestral African kings, he can have a harem of women, all of whom are kept in their place—no one more exceptional than another.

That’s how Obama wants to rule the world.

©2009 Kevin Jackson – The Black Sphere All Rights Reserved

 
 
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  • Fic

    Kevin the only thing that makes attractive your writing is your command of words. THAT IS IT. Mainly non-sense. I can only imagine where does your mental disabilty comes from. I see here that you have a problem digesting some things this president has said. All people of the world have the same interest as a group in general. We all want live freely. What makes this impossible is our governments and the groups that we belong to. Do we have some groups like islamic terroists trying to harm us? yes!!! Do we have KKK members wishing for anhilation of black people yes! My point to you is don't hate the person. Look, we americans are the most generous, understanding and giving people in the whole world. We don't need to apologize for it nor for our way of life. Let the UN be evidence. The problem is that the perception of our country around the world is not what it used to be. People love and hate us. They love our way of life that everybody wants to come here. At the same time people like yourself are percevied as bullies for the better choice of the word…perception, perception, perception….that's it. Why do you think something is wrong in trying to change that perception?. Obviously, 'bring it on' 'axis of evil' and all these didn't work out. I like my way of conservatism…I take no order or 'talking points' from no body do you Mr Jackson? Are you looking down on african women?…"kept in their place" your own words. For whatever reason they are not responsible as your grandparents were not responsible, for being sold here as slaves nor for not having a chance to vote until recently or for being forced to sit at the back of the bus. Again, your own words "America is a beautiful woman with a few slight flow" By your own admission, we have some flows. Could the perception as a bully be one of those flows? I am just saying. I am about to diagnose your problem with the black people. I will leave that to another post.

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      I am a bully, and I have no problem kicking Liberals asses to the curb. My mission in life is to chase you bastard down your rat holes. Perhaps then you will see the destruction you have done to America, forcing people to live with all your PC crap. Don't give me anecdotal evidence about the Left, you suckers are tighter than a camel's ass in a dust storm. As for how I feel about black people, I feel about black people the way I feel about ALL people. Now if you want to know how I feel about deadbeat black people, feel free to let me know my opinion.

  • James H

    I agree with everything you said, Kevin. We are a very generous nation. When there's a disaster we help with what we can. And what do we get in return? We're called stingy for one. Who wants to be a world citizen when most of the world is socialist or outright communist.
    BTW I'm willing to be that the people who broke into your car were white liberal punks

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      No James, they were black punks, likely Liberals.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @FIC – Did you get bounced on your head? You think the UN has the best interest of the US in mind? What a buffoon!! The difference between you and me is I don't need OTHER nations to validate that the US is the best country in the world…EVER! America is in a word…amazing! Other countries want to be like us, and are simply jealous! I guess you get up in the morning and call people to see if you are "ok" with them? Grow up!

    • deepwater

      I can break it down for all simple minds alike,and this, Keven?God help a smart idiot!!!!America is the best and worst of all that is under God.If u r anybody that don't like Obama it's only because ur an ignorant racist!And even if he was the worst f—-up that ever walk into the white house,we deserve to be there after all the trifling racist scum that has been there.white people who try to hide the evil inside, keep on trying to work that out,God see every single thing inside and out you.But know this ,people that hate like you all are what eats at the core of this country with rotten teeth!!!

  • http://www.confessionsofaculturewarrior.blogspot.com Richard

    I said it at the election. Obama will be the death of this country unless something is done NOW. We can't wait until the 2010 elections to make our voices heard.

    "Come bloggers, facebookers throughout the land, argue criticize, most of all take a stand, for this country of yours, this wonderful land, if your freedom to you is worth savin', then stand up shout your name spread your voice 'cross the land, for the times they are a-changin'."

    With NO apologies to Bob Dylan!

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      You would be right, Obama is the worst president EVER! This country will be better off when he rides off into the sunset!

  • Daniel Blynn

    Loved the article. Another great post, and just makes me hungry for the next one. Keep up the good work.

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      I hope that you are still reading my work, Daniel.

  • http://www.scogginsnoggin2.blogspot.com Joe

    Great insight! He believes he was elected King of the US, and now will become the Emperor of the world.

    (BTW: Congratulations. This post has been chosen to be my lead feature on my side-bar. This carries with it minimal honor and no reward, but it does introduce others to your blog).

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      Thanks for the honor, Joe!

  • Susan

    I love your postings. By the comments posted here why does this have to be a black or white thing? Can't we just agree we are conservatives?
    I am very proud of America and I have also been around the world in the Military and have always been greeted with open arms.

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      Susan, I cover race and class issues, because that's what the Left does. They will be made to pay, as long as I'm around the disingenuous chumps! NO QUARTER!

  • James H

    Oh now it's his 'homies' who broke into his car. Do I sense sarcasm there? It could be blacks who broke into his car but I doubt it. I see more hatred from white liberals than anyone else. They hate black conservatives more than they hate white women conservatives. Even Ann Coulter.
    Finally saw you on Glenn Beck, Kevin. Great interview and you're a sharp dresser. You make that fat waste of DNA mike moore look like the slob he is.

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      Glad you were able to catch me on Beck.

  • Eurika

    Your blog is amazing and yes, America IS amazing, take this from an immigrant!

    • http://www.facebook.com/theblacksphere Kevin Jackson

      Thank you, Eurika. And thanks for loving your new country!

  • James H

    Kevin, you are spot on. We give aid and money to countries when they have a disaster and are called stingy for it. Who wants to be a world citizen when most of the world is socialist or outright communist. And for Obama to go around to these people who want us dead and apologize sickens me.
    BTW I’m willing to bet that the people who broke into your car are white liberal punks.

  • James H

    Fic; his problem with the black people???

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @James H – FIC has a problem with black people who can actually THINK! If he took a minute he might actually learn something! Thanks for the comment!

  • Fic

    You will see how loved you are when you get to travel around the world. Being an american is the most beautiful thing. It is not that we are helping them or not, it is how we are perceived. About Kevin’s problem with black people, I will leave it to another day. I am willing to bet you that it is one of your homies who broke into his car. Are we politicizing robbery now? Quit it; will you? BTW I hated also when our president apologizes for our shortcomings, but it maybe a good way to go. Since we failed to have good relations around the world in the past.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Fic, you need to get out of the discussion business. Taxation is robbery, but you wouldn’t politicize it? You are also astoundingly unfocused, like smoke, spreading across a wilderness, some words over here not at all connected to the words over there. Also, why would you even be involved with a blogger with whom you have no agreement? Shouldn’t you be giving your opinions of the Huffington Post? Where they will be appreciated? Whatever your opinions are? And now I would like to give the Blogger my own opinion of the Kenyan-in-Chief regarding his glibness and ease with public discourse. Obama seems to be a dedicated, believing Marxist with a facility for proclaiming Marxist doctrine with ease and assurance. He is a practiced and talented revolutionary. And since Marxism is simply Socialism in a more pure form, it is no surprise that the world would listen, since, being a Socialist world, Marxism seems a logical step “forward.” Obama has the confidence of a quarterback who notices that the other side has not fielded a team. Why would he be nervous or unsure then? Thus his noticeable calm demeanor on the world stage. We – the real world of rational people – are fortunate that Obama is merely a good presenter of Marxism and not an effective “rouser of the masses.” His flaw seems to be he makes the masses angry. Which is why on some level, at least, I find him funny. If he had a real opponent in the world of ideas he’d be turned into the Nothing he really is – after he had a final, infuriated, frustrated screaming-tantrum of course.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Fic: I am going to peg you as a fifteen year old poly-sci enthusiast with a desire to
    do your part to spread the message of Socialism to the world and make the planet a better place for you on welfare, since it is unlikely that you hold a job longer than 3 months at a time, assuming you ever had one. You are a victim of your own conditioning instilled by others. For instance, why would robbery NOT be politicized? Taxation is robbery, and that’s a political issue. “Paying one’s debt to ‘society” for robbery is a political issue, since the State has exclusive say in the disposition of robbers found guilty of robbery. What I am saying, Fic, is that your thoughts are like smoke spreading out across a wilderness, one thought over here having no connection to another thought ten miles over there, even though they are both in the same sentence. Fic I also have a problem understanding why you would even involve yourself with a Blogger with whom you have no agreement at all. Why aren’t you at the Huffington Post telling Ariana what a great job she’s doing? And now to address the Blogger’s review of the Kenyan-in-Chief’s display of Self before the “world leaders.” Kevin, I don’t think the low-grade Sith we have as President is quite as magificent in his own eyes as the rest of the Socialist world perceives him. I think he sees himself merely as a glib and talented classroom teacher, if you will, of basic Marxist principles. Which is essentially what his mantra is; Marxism. He has a talent for calmly standing before the class and explaining the
    philosophy of Karl Marx. It is a philosophy which the world listens to calmly since Marxism is a logical perfection of Socialism. And there isn’t a government on earth that isn’t Socialist, including our own. Obama is like the quarterback of a team that has come onto the field and noticed that there is no opposing team. Why would he not be calm? He has no opposition. All his opponents preach SOME form of Socialism, the Republicans a little less of it than the Democrats and the Libertarians a little less of it than the Republicans. Why would Obama not be confident? He has the logical high-ground. If the day ever comes when Obama is confronted with a non Socialist debater he will crumble into dust. After a brief screaming tantrum of frustration, of course.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Well, Susan, it has to be a black and white thing because a very large part of it is a black and white thing. You see.

  • Fic

    James, I didn’t say Kevin’s homies I said your’s, because you are the one who said the people who broke into his car are white liberals…and you would bet on it.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    fic, why are you exhausting people on a conservative blog when you aint a conservative. why aint yu over on ariana’s blog?

  • http://Nope Mary Sheehy

    Messiah Pinhead !

  • proudhon

    i seem to having technical difficulties, i will try my post again:

    i had a hard time locating the facts and “policy disputes” you claim to have with obama, underneath all the ad hominem, but where i found some, i took issue. first, you say: “It irks me that Obama believes that our interests are shared. Our interests could be shared, if Iran didn’t want to obliterate Israel.” the fact that we’ve got an investment in the security of israel proves that we have shared, international interests. obama may have practical differences with conservatives, but no one within the mainstream of political discourse is suggesting that we don’t have “shared” international interests. what is it that you are attributing to obama? are you advocating for complete isolationism? in the 21st century? that’s fine if you are, but i don’t think most people want to give up practically every material product they possess, including, at this point, our money. but maybe i’m underestimating people.

  • Fic

    Kevin, in my earlier post I forgot to remind you about hurricane Katrina. You remember it happened long, long, time ago?. Was it in Haiti or Kenya? oops, my bad, I meant to say here in our own back yard. I am sorry, I suffer from selective amnesia.

  • proudhon

    second part:

    you say: “I have traveled the world extensively, and I have never seen a commercial to help America’s poor or America’s children” have you ever heard of the latin american school of medicine? (http://tinyurl.com/ycsyvrs) they send 100 americans to medical school free of charge each year, on the condition that when they graduate they practice in under-served areas in the us. i don’t know if they have commercials where you traveled, but it seems to me that this is precisely what you are looking for — a significant material contribution to poor communities in the us, paid for out of the pocket of a foreign country (and a hated leftist, no less).

  • http://Nope Mary Sheehy

    Obamalamadingdong that is….he doesn’t know the truth from a lie and he’s a great debater. Did anyone hear him tell George Stephanopoulas that “you’re really stretching it George, to bring a dictionary with you to look up the word tax.” Yes, George brought a dictionary with him to talk with Obama. A good idea!!!!!!

    Yes, a very large part of it is a black and white thing. One difference! All of our blood is RED and it’s a shame to see it flowing in Iraq and Iran. Heartbreaking.

  • proudhon

    @mary, good news: the us is not at war w/ iran.

    • Brian H

      Well done Kevin.
      I don't know how some of the reply can accuse you of racism, socialism, or stupidity, unless they are some of the paid anti-freedom blogger's spreading ignorance and servitude for a fee, and blithely selling out America in the process.
      Keep up the good work.
      You're not doing anything good until you really piss off some libs.
      Save America, dis a lib today.

  • James H

    Yes, and I would still bet on that. As I said they may not be white, they could be black but as I also stated before, the reason I said that is because I see more hatred from white liberals than anyone else. Like the hatred directed at Sarah Palin. From what I can see, and I don’t read everything or watch TV 24/7, most of the hatred toward her comes from white liberals. I have read articles from white conservatives who blast her but nothing compared to what comes from the left.
    Anyway have a nice week end.

  • proudhon

    third part (redux of the redux):

    you say: “When America was attacked on 9-11, much of the world celebrated.” this is patently false and it’s completely disrespectful to the victims of the attacks.

  • proudhon

    finally, fourth part (redux)

    and that last paragraph, i don’t even know where to begin. wtf, man!? how many more anti-black stereotypes can you pack into an overwrought and ultimately confused metaphor? so he is misogynist, polygamist, anti-american / socialist, descended from african kings/savages (but only half, right?), and a defiler of american beauty? if only you made reference to his genitalia you’d have probably covered all the bases. anyway, cringe inducing to put it mildly.

  • proudhon

    forth part (redux):
    and that last paragraph, i don’t even know where to begin. how many more anti-black stereotypes can you pack into an overwrought and ultimately confused metaphor? so he is misogynist, polygamist, anti-american / socialist, descended from african kings/savages (but only half, right?), and a defiler of american beauty? if only you made reference to his genitalia you’d have probably covered all the bases. anyway, cringe inducing to put it mildly.

  • Fic

    @james you have a nice week-end as well. Nice talking to you

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    when the muslims attacked on 9-11 you’re right, much of the world didn’t celebrate. MOST of the world celebrated.

  • proudhon

    @jj like who?

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    you a scientologist?

  • jaceinaz

    I’m having a difficult time understanding the basis of Fic’s argument…oh well, stupidity is often difficult to decipher.

    great post, kevin.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @proudhon – THAT was the example you gave of helping America! LMFBAO! You are amazing! YES…THAT example equates to all the help that America gives to the world, 100 medical students getting their education, then having to pay it forward. What a fricking IDIOT you are! I may just start deleting your comments, since they are more worthless than monkey piss!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @jj – Thanks for representing in here, while I had to step away. I was judging a comedy event tonight! I think there was more comedy from the “libs in drag” here, than perhaps at the club!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @James H – Glad you were here, and tossed the “crap grenades” right back at the libs, who apparently are here for a healing! As you guys may note, I am in a feisty mood!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @Mary – You are so right about Obama, the sheister! Stephanopoulus actually asked the ONE tough question, which Obama avoided!

  • Charles

    @proudhon

    Yeah, the link you posted was not a commercial. That doesn’t even help Americans. It was irrelevant. All it is, is just a scholarship program to send people to American medical schools. Not to fund AMERICANS going to them.

  • Charles

    ugh. Proudhon is annoying. He has something stupid and irrelevant to say on EVERY one of your posts.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @Eureka – Thanks so much for the compliment! I am trying to get back to writing at least 4 days a week.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @Daniel – Thanks for making me smile!

  • http://www.google.com Curt B.

    Kevin, you have Obama pegged brilliantly. Everything from the way he is trying to position himself with the rest of the world to the arrogant glare and condescending dismissal of anyone who questions him. Being just a black leader would be way too small for this guy. He wants it all, plain and simple, and just like the self-delusional narcissist he is, has the false confidence of a 20ish college graduate, not the real world confidence of a man who has succeeded at progressing levels.

    The problem is he thinks he’s going to play the rest of the world, also. They could give a flying you-know-what about Obama. They just want to see the U.S. brought down to their level. This country has done too much in too little of a time and that make these other countries cringe. The real secret of our country is respect for the individual. In most countries , a few at the top get everything, the masses are just cogs in their wheel. The talent sitting in these countries is wasted and that is the biggest tragedy, a quiet desperation placed upon generation after generation. The best example of this is China. When I was growing up, it was just a pathetic country, poor, lifeless, demoralized. Now, even though it remains a authoritarian regime, it has opened up opportunites for hard work and businesses, encouraging and financing such. The Chinese people have a whole new level of life and confidence. If I was the Chinese government I’d be doing something with bricks right now. Just a little unleashing of individual potential did that.

    We are unique and if Obama tries to bring this country down, he is going to be surprised at the backlash. What he is seeing now is nothing. As for the race card Obama, his cronies, and the stable of MSM whores he has at his disposal keep playing, it is losing its sting. It has the opposite effect now because it is being used as dismissal of a whole group of individuals who fear big government more than anything. Alot of them are even the same idiots that voted for him.
    People vote with their feet and there is only one country people are constantly trying to immigrate to. That tells you everything. Actions speak louder than words.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @Joe – Thanks for putting me on your sidebar!

  • venus

    Fic, it is the MSM’s fault and you know it’s the truth! They only report what they want to report and it’s the LIBERAL way! and you know it too! I came in the USA in 1993 and as a legal immigrant I can honestly say the MSM doesn’t tell you the truth. When they (MSM) say people from other country hate USA it’s true but only 10% of them! they don’t tell you about the 90% that actually love/like AMERICA. The MSM perceived America as bad which is very SAD! They MSM turned their backs to those people who died and sacrifice for this BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY! Believe me, growing up all I wanted was to come here and have my piece of American Dream and you know what I have it right now and I Thank God for that. Their is no country in the world that’s better than AMERICA none period! Also, to comment on President wee weed Obama’s UN speech that all countries were created equal, but none are better than any other. And that no one nation can tell any other nation what it can or cannot do. One country cannot dominate another. Excuse me, does he know his history? Because of the USA’s domination we freed a lot of countries? Does he know that! Geez, and he is supposed to be the educated Harvard Graduate? That’s his big flaw NO COMMON SENSE!!!!

    I love this country they have given me so much opportunities. If people just believe on themselves they can succeed if you just work hard enough to achieve what they want to do in their life it will be better for them. Here is one of my favorite slogan at the Tea Party, FREE MARKET NOT FREE LOADERS!

    I loved the article Kevin, keep up the good work. God Bless You!

  • http://dsulli17@comcast.net Don Sullivan

    FIC

    Referring to your first post; all people of the world have the same interests and we all want to live freely. Many, if not most, people of the world are Lorded over by despots. You reference the racist organization, (KKK & all of their 11 outward members). KKK is something akin to the word RACISM. it doesn’t mean much any more because it is so rarely there and only used when radical liberals are on the cusp of losing an argument or just looking silly on Kevin’s blog. President Obama went to the U.N. and apologized, (however politely), for the U.S. and our way of life. He apologized, (however backhandedly), for our wishes to help others around the world to be free, He never mentioned the treasure and blood we so freely sacrificed because we loved from afar. He didn’t mention that our Volunteers sought wrong and tried to right it. He didn’t mention that, everything America is, is what the rest of the world can be.

    He should have turned over a new leaf by confessing to the U.N. that he belonged to a political party in his country that sought to keep the Black population in check through abortion, but he was about to fix that and spread it to the world. He should have confessed that the ghettos are there to assure a consistent voting block for the democrats, (GEE SATAN, ALL WE HAD TO PROMISE THEM WAS ENOUGH PUBLIC ASSISTANCE TO KEEP THEM ON THE CUSP OF STARVATION). He should have confessed that his party has provided public schools that assure that the cycle perpetuates itself. He could have provided pictures of our prison system that seems to systematically have a cell for young Black men when the reach a certain age. You know, the despots he was talking to, imprison there own, not because of skin color, (usually), but because they don’t agree with the despot. He could have appropriately said to his audience the imaginary, (but somewhat true), following.

    I Barack Hussein Obama and the political party that I espouse, do solemnly swear to prostitute an entire race for our own personal and political gains.

    Thank You

  • http://dsulli17@comcast.net Don Sullivan

    Proudhon

    On 9-11, the enemies of freedom did indeed celebrate. That doesn’t hurt us Conservatives. It merely shows the, if we all just disarm, (crowd), there will be weerrlldd peace, idiots that human nature is alive and well and it seeks whom it may devour.

    That’s a lesson; learn it before it’s too late.

  • Shamballa

    Obama is a dangerous combination of narcissist and naivete. When dictators of third world countries like Chavez and Castro praise a President of the United States it should raise a huge red flag. I can just imagine them smoking their Cuban cigars and laughing.

    Fic,
    I look forward to your “I am about to diagnose your problem with the black people. I will leave that to another post.” I’m sure it will be enlightening and informative reading… NOT.

  • Annie

    Kevin, I started following you after I saw you on Beck. It takes courage for a man of color to say what he thinks when he thinks like you and you should be COMMENDED FOR YOUR COURAGE. BLESS YOU. I hope you stay the course and stay safe.

  • Joan

    I look for your new posts daily and was happy to see another one had been posted. Aside from agreeing with this one politically, I thought your last paragraph was a powerful statement about the transforming love of a man for his woman. It is blessedly something I’ve experienced with my husband who champions me.

  • http://dsulli17@comcast.net Don Sullivan

    Joan: 7:44am

    Thanks for pointing that out. It was indeed precious. I too champion my lover and companion of 30 plus years. My Wife is truly a gift from God that gives daily.

    She is also my sister in Christ.

  • Kathryn Stuard

    Kevin, You are my hero. You bravely make your stand in the midst of insanity. Obama and his puppet masters are attempting to take over this great country. And they do it on the backs of minorities. I am a WASP from Texas and I can guarantee you that there are millions of us in Texas who see the ONE and know he “wears no clothes”. I am your biggest fan.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    Great comments from all. I was happy that a few of you picked up on the analogy of a good woman! I ask that you SHARE this blog, and get people to pick up my book, The BIG Black Lie. We must get my POV out there before 2010!

    I promise to blog more this week.

  • http://google glfh

    Kevin,
    Just want to thank you for this topic. You’re reading him as I did. It, to me , was obvious, so it causes greater angst. Perhaps his actions/words are self-betraying?

  • Marie-Jeanne Cotner

    First of all, I have 2 beefs with Fic:

    1. In your first post you quote Kevin as having written, “America is a beautiful woman with a few slight flow.” And you continue, “By your own admission, we have some flows. Could the perception as a bully be one of those flows? I am just saying.”

    OK, I know everyone makes typos. But when you quote someone else – in this case, Kevin – it’s good to make sure you actually quote what they say. Kevin said “FLAWS” (which means “defects in physical structure or form” or “imperfections or weaknesses, especially ones that detract from the whole or hinder effectiveness”). He did not say “FLOWS,” as you did – first, when quoting him and then two more times, yourself. If you wish to argue about women’s menstrual cycles, please direct your posts to another blog.

    2. In another post, you say, “You will see how loved you are when you travel around the world.” Again, did you even read Kevin’s post? He clearly says, “I have traveled the world extensively.” Why don’t you ask Kevin a question about his experience instead of stating an unsubstantiated opinion?

    It really bothers me to have to waste my time reading drivel from people who seem not to have read the blog they’re responding to.

    Now – on to content! Kevin, I love this post. Thought you and others might enjoy this (short) commentary my husband just forwarded me: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2009/09/all_about_obama.html. Also, this article from the UK: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100010499/barack-obama-president-pantywaist-restores-the-satellite-states-to-their-former-owner/ (I didn’t know what “pantywaist” meant, so I looked up the definition, and it’s British slang for “a boy or man who is considered weak or effeminate.”) Man, when I remember the glory days of Ronald Reagan (e.g., Berlin Wall, support for Solidarity in Poland) and then I hear this crap from our president, I feel sick.

    Thanks again for all you do!

  • James H

    So this school of medicine, which is supposedly free, is in Cuba. Well, I guess I’ll just pack my bags, head out and become a doctor. But why are there only 91 students from America there?

  • http://www.katiestenglein.blogspot.com Katie

    Agreed, what he doesn’t realize is that the rest of the world sees him for who what he is and will capitalize on his foolishness. Obama will NEVER rule the world he is too foolish and he is making a mockery of our great nation. This term cannot end soon enough.
    Thanks to all of the voters that refused to have an opinion about policy or morals.
    Thanks to all the voters that refused to educate themselves and went with the grain for the sake of not being persecuted by a bunch of other weak lazy americans.
    What a bunch of lemmings!

    … and thank YOU Kevin for the opportunity to vent my frustrations

  • lulu

    His speech at the UN was despicable. I7-year old model UN students have more foresight than this idiot. And, he was wrong on all accounts–WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. The only interests Oblama serves are his own. The worse part is that he really made himself look even more stupid in the eyes of the world leaders and he doesn’t even realize it–his ego won’t allow it. His boys, Chavez, Castro and Li’l Dinna Jacket, Li’l Kim, Khaddafi and Putin, all have his number and are rooting for him because they, like Oblama hate the US. The leaders of the rest of Western world were equally appalled and know now that they have to protect their own backs. Netanyahu’s showed what a leader is made of. Sargozy, the French president, let Oblama have it good and made him look the amateur he is. My question is when do we start the proceedings for impeachment. If his actions at the UN weren’t high treason, I don’t know what is.

    Oblama really does have this distorted vision that he will be the leader of the world–and all will succumb to his will. Someone should tell him his s%@t does stink and that we, like the rest of the world can smell it. The UN should have been disbanded long ago. It is a ineffective, insignficant, money pit–mostly our US taxpayer dollars.

    As for Proudhon, he/she/it’s a troll that likes to harass conservative sites. Stupid is as stupid does. Ignore he/she/it.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @Mary Jane – Thanks for schooling proudhon! What a mess of thought he has!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @lulu – I agree that Obama is such a mess. I thought I would be happy when we got rid of Clinton, but I can’t wait for Obama to be a footnote in history.

  • http://www.meetup.com/fullmetalconservatives Stitch

    Kevin!
    The only thing better than your articles are your witty comebacks to the pinheads who dare to match brainpans with you!
    But, its not a fair fight….you have them outnumbers like 100 gujillion braincells to, uh … 4.

    People need to quit asking “why isn’t Obama doing this or doing that to get our economy moving?”.
    Because he is a Socialist/Marxist!
    He WANTS capitalism to FAIL.
    He is deliberately driving unemployment up so we can all stand in line BEGGING him for more free shit.
    Then he can raise his pointy nose even higher into the air and look down at us “mere” Americans and say, “see, NOW you want MY gubment help.
    BTW- Welfarians don’t want “affordable” healthcare, they want FREE healthcare.

    Sooner or later the politicians in Washington are going to have to do what the politicians in California are going to have to do.
    And that is, stand up, face their constituents, and admit they LIED to them.
    All that stuff they said was “free”, isn’t “free”, and the people who have been paying for it are tired of paying for it and aren’t going to pay for it anymore!!

    Later
    STITCH!

  • http://www.meetup.com/fullmetalconservatives Stitch

    everyone should track the Senators and Representations who are lauding the Cuban health care system.
    If they EVER get sick or need medicine and go to an AMERICAN hospital or buy AMERICAN-made drugs, we must expose them!
    Surely they would be soooooooooo much better off if they went to Cuba!

    STITCH!

  • http://www.meetup.com/fullmetalconservatives Stitch

    WE need to start a “draft Hillary for 2012″ movement.
    Get her to jump ship early (like she isn’t planning to eventually??) and stick her dagger into the back of this administration.
    WE are already hammering the “Annointed One”, but if we can get half the Democrats (presumably the Democrats who do NOT want Socialism, or surrender our Constitution to “international treaties”) to turn on this mis-administration, then we can at least stop him from moving us further left until we can recapture our country in 2010 and 2012.

    2010: put Obama on Life Support
    2012: PULL THE PLUG!

    STITCH!

  • Taqiyy.

    Anyone else having problems with the pages at this blog? On the Carter thread, there is a big black void at the bottom, obscuring all comments after the thread reaches a certain length. All the way to the bottom, obscuring even this comment box. I told Kev and the dev team, more times than I should have, and still, the page is broken.

    It’s not happened to this thread yet, but it will.

    I’m using Firefox 3.5, noscript is allowing all here.

  • Taqiyy.

    Black void-to-the-end-of-the-page begins on the Carter thread in the middle of “proudhon” comment here (12:29PM) http://theblacksphere.net/carter-being-black/#comment-11551

    I’ll try again with IE, I guess, though I haven’t used it in years, and shouldn’t have to break out another browser just so the site is functional.

    I asked Kev in an e-mail after a few days of no fixes: are you sure your web dev team is ON YOUR SIDE?

    Paging Jeremy Buff, Interactive Media Design! Site broke, please fix. :)

  • Taqiyy.

    My apologies, the site does work with IE. I hate IE. Therefore, until either Firefox is fixed to work with BlackSphere dot net, or until BlackSphere dot net is fixed to work with Firefox, I will only be reading and commenting on short threads.

  • proudhon

    @kevin, laugh all you want about the latin american program, but it does exactly what you said no country does. and for the communities who are actually served by those doctors, it is a real benefit. dismissing it is calloused to the suffering of people who need medical services and are not getting it in our country’s poorest areas. like it or not, poor people are americans too. also: Marie-Jeanne Cotner made no mention of me, her comments are directed @FIC. you should read more closely.

    @charles, if you think that the latin american school of medicine “is just a scholarship program to send people to American medical schools,” you have misread that link. re-read it or google the program if you’re interested. but it is not what you described.

    @Don Sullivan I don’t know who these “enemies of freedom” are, but i really can’t imagine they make up the majority of the world. that sounds a bit paranoid to me. and, frankly, paranoia is bad for democracy. paranoid people are quite prone to making bad political decisions and prone to being taken advantage of by people who actually don’t share their interests. just saying.

    @lulu, your post lacks specifics. can you point to one specific thing that obama did that merits being prosecuted for treason? i wouldn’t have even commented on the ten-billionth ad hominem attack on obama, but you did call me a troll. btw, what i am doing here, engaging people in discussion, on your terms, is not at all trolling. not to mention that in general, i have been far more polite to you all than you have been to me.

  • Taqiyy.

    Sent report to mozilla regarding error.

    proudhon, regarding your last to lulu: how about intentionally bringing down Fannie and Freddie using ACORN and the Cloward-Piven Strategy, while at the same time profiting prodigiously from both, along with co-conspirators Sens. Barney Frank (D) and Chris Dodd (D)? Is that treasonous?

    Probably not. It’s damn criminal, still. Far worse than what Martha Stewart did (for example), and she went to the Greybar Hotel for a stay.

    Also, the other day I noticed you going on about Bush not being duly elected, or some such nonsense. The FL-2000 scandals have been investigated to death. Bush did not steal or attempt to steal the election. The reverse was true, and all the investigations, even by the hardest-left of the news media, concluded that: EVEN IF ALL THE ILLEGAL VOTES WERE COUNTED (that is, even if all the votes by ACORN WORKERS, FELONS, NURSING HOME COERCIONS, improperly punched ballots, that is, or otherwise not in accordance with LAW) and EVEN IF ALL THE THROWN-OUT MILITARY BALLOTS WERE COUNTED, and EVEN IF ALL THE EXTRA BALLOTS THEY FOUND IN BROWARD CO. FILING CABINETS UNDER AND BEHIND THE DRAWERS got counted, NO MATTER HOW, even the MSM said, BUSH WON.

    You suffer, or enjoy, I cannot tell from here, the ailment known as BDS. That and you seem to believe that anything which is repeated often enough is true, despite no supporting evidence and a cornucopia of evidence to the contrary.

    In 2000, and even moreso in 2004, the Democrat presidential candidate lost, DESPITE THE BEST EFFORTS IN ALL FIFTY GODDAMN STATES BY ACORN, SOROS, the MSM, TO STEAL IT.

    Ahh, well. Practice makes perfect. Finally pulled it off. All it took was the Republicans running someone with no desire to win.

  • proudhon

    @Taqiyy 1) about that acorn fantasy, it doesn’t sound treasonous to me and has nothing to do with the un address lulu was on about 2) i have not said anything about the 2000 election here, so you may need to copy that and paste it in whatever forum it belongs. on the notion of voter fraud, its pretend. it is not real. acorn self reported their hired hourly voter registrars forging registrations, b/c they got paid / assessed per card. that’s all. point to one arrest in the last 50 years of someone voting w/ a forged registration. there is a profound difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud.

  • Karrel

    Happy to see Fic got such a platform (sic)

    Great job Kevin – keep up the good work!

  • Karrel

    I forgot to say, I travel in Europe quite a lot since my parents live in Germany. I have never ever ever heard anyone say anything bad about Americans. And I have also never met anyone who doesn’t want to come here or come back.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    proud hon: you know, a lot of whatever it is you are trying to say is lost in the morass of your inability to construct sentences where the subject and the predicate – if not having anything in common – at least have a passing familiarity with each other via some distant relatives from ealier paragraphs. arguing a case is 99% being able to articulate it. If you can articulate it you can usually dazzle the opponent with distraction. But if you can’t connect the sentences with each other or the words within each sentence with themselves – it’s a pissa muh sistuh.

  • Taqiyy.

    proudhon,
    You should learn about the Cloward-Piven strategy, and the many ways in which it can be put to use. It was designed, like a DDOS attack in computer lingo, to destroy by negating the stability of systems through the use of floods of requests. Registration fraud is used on our election system. In NYC in the 70’s, some of the same names that are involved today intentionally broke the NYC welfare system, just to prove that they could. They did this by convincing, through the wonders of Community Organizing, the target population to flood the welfare offices with every single possible demand. As in, LIE ON THE FORMS, and request every possible method of assistance that the system could provide. It worked. They were revolutionaries, and they willfully deceived the poor minorities into (as they do today) working as their pawns and thinking that “these people love me and are trying to help me.” Same thing was done by Barack Obama himself with ACORN. He, using community organizing and the Cloward-Piven strategy, convinced everyone in the target group that they DESERVED a house. Whether they could pay for it or not. Fannie and Freddy were told by Federal statute that they had to back up a certain percentage of these loans. The banks were “sat in” by hordes of aforementioned target group, brainwashed by ACORN and Community Organizers that they could get something for nothing, and were eventually forced to give millions of home loans to people who couldn’t and wouldn’t ever have a way to pay them back, or even the inclination to. Funny how Obama and Dodd are the two most lucky and wealthy beneficiaries of cash from Fannie and Freddy.

    The same strategy works for the election system. It overloads the system with more “requests” than the system can handle. That’s the point. That’s why ACORN’s Community Organizers tell their idiot sycophant obedient brainwashed college kids to DO THAT.

  • Taqiyy.

    Keep telling yourself it’s all a fantasy, proudhon.

    It’s exactimundly what the Democrat slavemasters would have you do.

    OBEY. heh.

    So sad.

  • http://dsulli17@comcast.net Don Sullivan

    PROUDHON
    you replied to me that you don’t know who those enemies of freedom are and I’m obviously paranoid, (paraphrasing). First of all, you do remember the people of the different countries that celebrated. By the way, I only watched the Lamestream media back then and they all posted the celebrations; no paranoia here, just following the lead of the media at the time.
    Secondly, I realize that you have to see me as a needy paranoid guy, that’s fine. However, you libs aren’t able to see Black Americans as Normal Americans. Oh no, they’re victims. they need abortion, single parent households, Liberal Edumacashun, ghettos, they need to know that you and you’re kind have created a future of hopelessness and democrat chains for them. Your party is an enemy of freedom and you know that you seek to prostitute people for your gain. You auction off their families, lives, education, lifestyles, freedom and you do this for a mere pittance. I’m not paranoid. I just happen to understand something that irritates you and other stupid shitheads and that is this: THE LIBTURDS ARE COMING, THE DEMOCRATS ARE COMING. However, Patriots need not fear; truth is light to them and the Bible says that darkness cannot exist where light is present. Only when light is extinguished, is the darkness dominant.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Uh, oh, Sullivan; you said Bible. That word makes Democrats writhe and scream in anger.
    They effing lose it. HAHA come to think of it, it’s fun to watch. HAHAHAHAHA

  • http://dsulli17@comcast.net Don Sullivan

    Dear jj,

    I covered my ass….I think. I was paraphrasing.

  • http://dsulli17@comcast.net Don Sullivan

    Proudhon,

    I just want to end the evening on a positive note because some of us have to get up in the morning and pay your taxes to your dear leader.

    My question to you is this: What does any of your pointless drivel have to do with the fact that you are a liberal racist? Please come back and tell us why you are a liberal racist.
    I think I got this question from Kevin’s wonderful book. You have to admit; it’s a great conversation starter because it sends most liberal on the immediate defensive.

    Good Night All,

    Don

  • Tammy

    Kevin:
    I haven’t visited your blog in a while, but today was my lucky day!
    The unhinged liberals that are commenting here( FIC and proudhon) have got me in stitches!
    Fic doesn’t know the difference between the word “flaw” and the word “flow”, and rambles like she/he is off their medication.

    Proudhon talks about foreign countries coming to our aide, and sites a Marxist Dictator’s program to train doctors in Cuba.
    Medical training in Cuba?
    That’s like training someone how to swim in a pool that has no water.

    Holy crap, man. These are the loonies that are attacking you? Neither one can write a cohesive sentence, nor do they make any sense, unless you count the voices that speak in their heads.
    And their grasp of humor or satire? These two only laugh when they see shiny objects dangling in front of their faces. Or somebody farts.
    Damn.
    I thought you’d at LEAST attract some progressive/socialist/America haters who have partial brains.
    These two are the kind of libs that drool on themselves as they burn candles and pray at their home-built alters to Obama.

    Hey, Fic and Proudhon:
    Buy Kevin’s book and learn something. Like, oh, I don’t know, the TRUTH!
    Oh, and take an English class while you’re at it.
    Reading your convoluted ramblings gives me, and anyone else with intelligence, a headache.

  • Fic

    @ Marie-Jeanne,
    Thank you for correcting my typo. My reference to traveling around the world was based on what Kevin has said. I know he said that he traveled extensively, but I was wondering how he felt not to see the change in perception.
    @JJ
    Why you like to destroy anyone who disagrees with you? You sound like this african dictator who never passed the 9th grade(forgot his name). You like to put people in the same box. Not everyone fits there.
    I love my Lord; Jesus. I love my country and I am a conservative, but not your kind of conservative. I am someone who believes that sometimes good ideas can come from others including you. I disagree with many of the policies the party is espousing right now. Your Majesty JJ, is it ok if I voice it?

    @Don Sullivan
    I can see your point, good analysis.

  • http://google Janelle

    Keep it up, Kevin! Superlative!

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    why dont you just fight back, fic. besides it aint you i’m workin’ against. it’s that bastard in the white house that called sarah palin a pig. no one else. you’re just in the way.

  • Principlex

    How about we try the Obama technique on Fic? Let’s say that Obama is your dad and everyplace he takes you, he apologizes for you. You are his son and of course he will not disown that fact. But no matter, you have not been a good boy and he is sorry to his friends for that. He never can find a good word to say about you. He always tells everyone what a jerk you’ve been. To appease all of these people who did not require him to appease them, he decides that he’s going to take all the things in your room and give them to other kids. Further, even though they didn’t ask him to, he’s not going to make any decisions about how to guide you without asking them.

    Don’t tell me you wouldn’t hate him in short order. The first thing you would hate is that he never stepped up to be a guide, a leader, for you. The second thing you would hate is that he took your favorite stuff. And the third thing you would hate is that he gave everyone in the whole world a claim on your life. In your dad’s world, you have just been created a piece of shit.

    The only thing I can think to call such a despicable person is an asshole. And as far as I am concerned the second rank of that order is the person who defends his behavior.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Principlex: that is one fine piece o’ writin’, damnit. Good job.

  • DaSicilian

    FIC….

    When writing about or ‘defending’ her…could you please capitalize America? Otherwise it might be very telling of who/what you truly are….thanks

  • DaSicilian

    Proudhon and Fic….
    approximately 9000 black babies were aborted last week…more than any other race…this is a great dem/lib policy…kill off the folks that support you, all the while telling tham they have the freedom to choose. Say what?

  • http://www.censusrights.com LindaB

    Thank god for those STRONGLY worded letters!

  • Marie-Jeanne Cotner

    re: Kevin’s comment about thinking he was going to feel good when Clinton was gone. I’ve thought this many times: isn’t it amazing when you find yourself thinking Bill Clinton would be a breath of fresh air? Ugh.

  • Jim Schurmann

    Priciplex: Great analogy.

  • Fic

    @Da Sicilian
    It is sad and wrong that black babies and any other babies are aborted. I can’t agree with you more. The problem with many of you is that when people differ in their opinion, you put them the in same box and try to beat them. I never said aborting was a good thing. I also hate when your black fathers are not around to guide you and teach you manners. Why you take your frustration on me?

    @Principlex
    I think that is what good fathers do, right? I don’t know if you have that experience. You need to apologize for something wrong that you have done. Please, don’t be ungenerous. Are you here to be coached and learn or to pick up a fight over typos? Why is that many in your corner speak LOUDER when they disagree over issues? I will leave this for you to figure it out. All I am trying to do is put some light in your life so that you can be someone who can think for yourself.
    p.s. Yes, I will capitalize America in the future.

  • Dana

    Hate to interrupt but just wanted to share this conversation I had about health care. My sister, and many family members live in or around Flint, Michigan. You know Flint, once a “thriving” union town that has been going to hell in a handbasket for the lasts 20 years. Ugh!

    We were debating “universal health care” or whatever they’re calling it this week and she said with complete conviction, “But most of the country doesn’t have healthcare! How can you oppose it?” I told her that’s just not true; there’s 300 million plus in the country and less than 40 million (give or take 10 mil depending on which talking head you listen to) don’t carry health insurance for a variety of reasons. She was shocked. How can that be? she asks. She says most people she knows do not have it. I tell her, other than my family, I don’t know anyone without insurance.

    Okay, so my point is, as one of the bloggers above pointed out, if you hear something enough, you begin to take it as fact. No research, no logic thought of your own, just jump on the “sky is falling” train with everyone else because it’s easier, and certainly the path of least resistance.

    By the way, as my conversation with my sister was wrapping up, she mentions that there is a state program, FREE, that she was on but never used it so she didn’t enroll this year. Okay….so there’s a free program that she herself provides better coverage than her ex-husband’s GM sponsored program, but she doesn’t bother to sign up? WTF???

    Point is, there are plenty of government provided health care insurance programs in every state and many people just don’t bother getting coverage. Some don’t want it, don’t feel they need it, and don’t want the hassle of jumping through the hoops to get it. Why, why, why, this urgent push for even more government provided health care program? What’s the motive behind it and who is really going to get richer from it?

  • Dana

    And of course, please excuse the typos! “We can send a man to the moon….” but we can’t get spell check on our blog posts?

  • Jim Schurmann

    Kevin: Great blog.I love it when you use absolutes it drive the Lefties crazy.
    If people want to know what America will be like if Obama gets all of his Socialist agenda passed all they have to do is go the Rosebud or Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota.They are a microcosm of what absolute dependence on Big Government does to people.The majority always vote for the Dems. and it has’t helped them a bit.
    Also Hello to my fellow Conservatives.I love your answers to the naive Libs on this site.
    I’ve only been following you for a few weeks since you were on Glenn Beck.Keep up the good work.

  • Sandi

    Kevin,

    You are a breathe of fresh air. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    You are right on! Thank you for having the courage to speak the truth.

    Sandi

  • proudhon

    @who ever,

    look, i’m really not interested in these protracted, ad hominem attacks on obama, liberals, me, etc. i’ve said before in this forum that i am far from a liberal, far from a dem, etc. i’ve engaged plenty of people here in relatively interesting grown-up discussions. if you’re not into that, fine. you don’t need to comment on my posts. if you can’t see that i am being extremely patient and extremely polite, you’re not paying attention. i read this blog for the same reason i read myriad other blogs; i am intellectually curious. i engage people here in discussion for the same reason i engage many people from a range of backgrounds and political persuasions in discussion; because i am genuinely interested in hearing from people who i disagree with. frankly, i don’t even understand why someone would read the comments section of a blog if all they want to read is, ‘hey i agree with you, we have the monopoly on truth, don’t we?’ i can’t imagine people are actually proud of being called things like “dittoheads,” right? that’s echo chamber shit. it’s boring and mentally stultifying. also, if you have a hard time understanding what i write (jj, tammy) point me in the direction of a specific passage and i’ll be happy to clarify.

  • proudhon

    re: our general disagreements here:

    broadly, i think my differences with the majority of you comes from my beliefs that capitalism is inherently undemocratic, and that the state is not much better. on the issue of capitalism, i think we all share a dislike for greed, exploitation, and the elite control over an extremely disproportionate share of our common resources (at least, this is what i hear when i hear conservatives rail against things like bank bailouts, corruption, etc.). i think where we differ is on issues of “liberty” and “freedom” and how these abstract ideals square with a market economy.

    the other fundamental area of disagreement is over how to best utilize our federal government. i think around issues of racial disparity, we can all agree that an interventionist federal government has produced some democratic ends. overtly race-based policy interventions — from the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments, to civil rights legislation, to affirmative action — have produce demonstrable benefits for some black americans. i don’t think that i hear anyone arguing here that these are the sources of the profound poverty in inner-city black communities, right.

    but the big disagreement seems to be over the issue of federal tax dollars being handed out to the range of interests competing for those dollars. generally, conservatives and liberals alike are perfectly happy dolling welfare to private corporate interests. i’m fairly convinced that capitalism could not survive without this welfare. at the very least, we would be living in a profoundly different world if bush/obama did not redistribute trillions of our tax dollars to the banks and the insurance industry. where they (and we) disagree however is over how to best address the ravages of capitalism on the nation’s most impoverished. here, historically, liberals have advocated for social programs such as aid for families with dependent children (afdc). more recently liberals have taken a far harder line on the impoverished. clinton, for example, decimated afdc, and replaced it with temporary aid for needy families (tanf). i would agree, to an extent, that these social programs have a disciplining effect on the population who receives them and they have effectively salvaged capitalism in its moments of greatest crisis (namely the 1930s and the 1960/70s). but the state in general (its role as a regulator, etc), and social welfare programs in specific (to the extent that they still exist) remain the one bulwark that the impoverished have against the exploitative excesses of the market. during the great depression, literally tens of thousands of americans starved to death. the social welfare system has, for the most part, militated against that. it’s not the answer, by any stretch, but if the alternative is unfettered capitalism or an even greater increase in the policing apparatus, i think social welfare is preferable.

    the right, historically, has made an ideological argument against social welfare. you all know the argument, so i’ll spare you and won’t repeat it. but it’s worth noting two things about this position: 1) this is an ideal that the right (or, the republicans) only seem to apply to the poor. in other areas, the right is perfectly happy dolling out welfare out to the capitalist class and acknowledging its necessity. 2) this argument did not become populist until the 1960s. why is the 1960s significant? i think you know

  • Ed

    “Essentially Obama wants what every Ms. America contestant wants…world peace! So do I!”
    “And I want the kid who held up my cousin and his girlfriend at knifepoint to return his wallet…and to buy my cousin a new pair of underwear!”

    Holy cow I just spit soda up my nose.

    I just want let you know Kevin that your blog puts me in a good mood everytime I read it, Keep up the good work.

    Oh and Proudhon/Fic, you guys really have no business trying to prove anything you have to say on this site until you read some books and educate yourselves.

  • http://www.meetup.com/FullMetalConservatives Stitch

    I know a lot of Bosnians (former Communists) in South St Louis, and I one actually said to me, “well, I think a little socialism is ok”.
    So I reminded him, “the last ‘Poster Child’ for Socialism was……ADOLF HITLER!
    Trust me, those people know (more than we do) what Hitler did.

    But then I asked him, “why are you HERE? Why are you in THIS country?”.
    “There are plenty of Socialist countries you can go to, so why are you in THIS country?”
    His answer, “because I can do anything I want here”.
    “And where are you going to go when this country is dragged down that same totalitarian/redistributive path?”
    His answer, “I dunno”.

    STITCH!

  • Mary Owens

    If and when Obama rules the world ,will he then denigrate the world. If he breaks promises now what will he do when he’s the leader of the world.(notice I didn’t say free world). He was elected by some very naive people who believe he’s going to make “a heaven on earth” kind of place . I too believe he wants to be the world’s leader, he can only hope that the power elite have the same plan. These are truely historic times…. the rise and fall of America,Obama style.

  • http://www.meetup.com/FullMetalConservatives Stitch

    WRONG, proudhun,
    We do not “rail against” bailouts because we hate greedy capitalists.
    We rail against NOT letting market forces take care of things.
    If a business does not have a good business model, whether its better competitors, true incompetence, or actual fraud and corruption, that business should be allowed to fail.

    We EXPECT businessmen/women to use their greed as a driving force to gain market advantage, put out a better product, produce a more clever advertising campaign, reduce pricing to gain market share, reduce operating costs to produce greater profits or reduce the cost of their product, whatever their “greed gene” drives them to (inside the law) to gain another inch advantage over their competitors.

    “Greed” is what keeps us all alive.
    You must live a comfortable life where you feel no need to compete.
    Or, you’ve resigned yourself to your mediocre living and solace yourself by throwing rocks at those of us who choose to GET OFF OUR ASS and DO something.

    AIG, Chrysler (CrySlur), GM, etc, are NOT “too big to fail”, they are “too big to get away”.
    They are nothing more than money trees for the DNC.
    Remember the movie, “Rush Hour 2″?
    Jackie Chan: “Follow the rich white man”.
    Look at how much money the top execs (who HAVE to file) are dumping into the pockets of Dodd, Reid, Pelosi, OBAMA, etc.
    And that’s just the money OVER THE TABLE that they HAVE to report.
    Who knows how much is flowing UNDER THE TABLE.
    AND, there are THOUSANDS of people working at those places who are not under the same reporting guidelines as the top execs.
    How many of them got $1000 “bonuses”, who then turned around and made a $1000 “contribution” to the DNC?
    How is it that a crack-addicted woman, with 17 arrests, homeless, living on welfare, managed to make a $2300 (maximum allowed) campaign contribution to Obama??
    Better yet, how can she vote 3 TIMES!

    Get off it, proudhun, we are NOT a “democracy”.
    We are a REPUBLIC.
    What’s the difference?
    Well, if everyone on this blog voted that we should take you outside and beat your brains out, then that’s that! Majority rules!!
    However, in a REPUBLIC, we have a “representative” government that swore an OATH to UPHOLD the CONSTITUTION.
    And its the CONSTUTION that protects us (YOU!!) from simply “majority rule”.
    If you want to change something, change the Constitution.
    BUT, that is a lot more effort than your side wants to put in.
    So your solution?: brainwash the m(asses) with clever jingles, chants, bumper stickers, TV ads, etc, until you achieve a tentative, simple, and temporary “majority” and then claim “MAJORITY RULES! WE WIN!”.
    In which case I say, let’s go back to my first example…
    The Founding Fathers INTENTIONALLY made the Constitutions difficult to change so that no generation could whimsically make changes for their own benefit.
    And THAT is what bugs you guys.

    STITCH!

  • http://www.meetup.com/FullMetalConservatives Stitch

    proudhun, after reading your comments, I have to say, you are full of crap.
    You “claim” you are not a liberal or a democrat or an Obama supporter….BULLSHIT.
    I’ve seen you or your kind on plenty of other blogsites.
    We can all see under your sheeps clothing, so KNOCK IT OFF.
    Come out, come out, wherever you are…..LIBERAL!

    If we stop replying to his comments, he will go away.
    This is my last mention of proudhon(erary stealer of taxpayer money for redistributive purposes).

    STITCH!

  • proudhon

    @Stitch, well, i suspect there are plenty of working people, who self identify as conservative, who don’t hold greed as a virtue. its seems to me it would be hard to reconcile with christianity. i can’t answer your questions about this crack addicted welfare recipient who’s also employed by chrysler and who votes (presumably for obama, yeah?) multiple times. if i see her (possibly during a paranoid delusion), i’ll inform her that those are bad things to do. living in a republic has not disabused me of the notion that democracy is something to strive for. maybe it’s not for you, and that’s fine. we’ll call that a fundamental, possibly manichean, disagreement.

  • proudhon

    @Stitch, i don’t know what an “erary stealer” is, but he did advocate against a monopoly on property by the rich, hardly a liberal ideal.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    proud hon: I’d appreciate it if you don’t mention my name anymore.

  • Jim Schurmann

    Stitch I agree with you.If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it’s probably a duck.Proudhon is just another naive,ignorant liberal who is a legend in his own mind trying to enlighten us.
    Study the Native American reservations if you want to know what the rest of the country will look like if Obama gets his way.

  • DaSicilian

    Fic…
    The left and the right both tend to put each other in a neat little box. Some should be there, others not….Didn’t think I was putting you in a box, perhaps the imagined four walls around you are very telling.
    And thank you for promising to capitalize America from now on…

  • Gene R

    I met you in Waco last month. I told you I would be proud to call you son. You make me more every day.

  • proudhon

    @Taqiyy, i didn’t see your comments up there or i would’ve responded sooner.

    yes i am familiar with cloward and piven’s article. i’ve actually read it. i have also read alinsky. my point in calling your assertion “fantasy” is that i don’t see the connection you are making. cloward-piven proposed a particular strategic intervention, designed to two things: 1) in the immediate, gain the welfare benefits for those who qualified for them economically but did not receive them; 2) in the long term, so disrupt the welfare state as to induce a crisis that would lead to a more equitable redistribution of resources. you may have a disagreement with that objective, but there’s nothing sinister or nefarious about it. every tax, every labor law, every wage increase or mass layoff, every time a manufacturer moves from this country to the global south, and every time federal funds or tax incentives are issued to keep them here, is a “redistribution” of our resources. what i think you all forget is that there’s no natural distribution of resources. instead, this is something that is negotiated socially. there’s nothing natural about a 40hr work week, a minimum wage, a weekend, etc. all of these things were won through struggles like the one cloward and piven were a part of, against the protestations and machinations of those who are logically, and rationally impelled not to make those concessions. .

    what i think is fantasy about what you said is this connection you make between this 40 year old article, about what was ultimately a failed strategy, and acorn’s voting registration drives. again, i’m sure i won’t change your mind, but you’re engaging in conspiracy theory when you assert that acorn was party to some massive voter fraud effort (as opposed to say, involved in some scattered voter registration fraud, b/c of the organizations serious structural deficiencies). it is absolutely true that acorn has a political agenda, and that by registering the disenfranchised they are hoping to move that agenda. but it is patently false to claim that they were involved in voter fraud. and just demographically, the % of the electorate they are working with could never “steal” an election, or whatever it is that is implied by this conspiracy theory.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    You’d make a great lawyer, Pudhump. All your clients would be aquitted just to get you to stop talking. Holy crap. You could make the color broadcast of the Dallas cheerleaders doing the players on the field boring.

  • Solo

    @Kevin, You wrote, ‘Obama wants America to lower itself to the level of the rest of the world…’

    Isn’t that what all liberals want? They want to dumb everyone and everything down so we are a nation of idiots! I’m with you, I can’t wait until Obama is a footnote in history.

    BTW, I am on page 90 of The Big black Lie- Great read thus far! Thanks.

  • Linda N

    Great post Kevin! Yes, we have our very own Emperor Nero, fiddling while DC burns…..

  • MEG

    Wow Kevin, you have sure been invaded by Obots since I last checked in.
    Freakin
    Idiotic
    Comments
    I am so glad that black background is gone! My poor eyes are thankful!

    Were you as PO’d as I was when King Obama referred to us as His people? That made my blood boil. We are not HIS people we are the AMERICAN people. And HE is not one of US!

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Obama’s people are leathery reptilian batwinged folk that travel interdimensionally, raise skulls of blood to Baal, and speak in gurgles and glugs. He aint black OR white. He’s subterranean.

  • Dana

    You just gotta love this stimulus! Clearly our VP is either senile or on drugs saying that it’s more sucessful that he dreamed it could be. Have these clowns every been on anything but the receiving end of other people’s money???

    I’m in business in the state of Hawaii. They just raised the unemployment tax for businesses from $90 per employee to $1000 per employee! That’s about a quarter mil. for my company. What to do? What to do? Like every other employer that can’t afford a hit like that; we’ll start laying off employees. And then they’ll file for unemployment, and DOL will raise unemployment tax to pay these people and employers will lay off more employers. And so on and so on until none of us has a job but that’s okay because “The Government” will take care of us. Oiy vey!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Kevin….another great article. Keep up the good work.

    Fic…you ramble, you bamble and really say nothing. America stands alone and has been for some time. You call yourself a conservative, but you really are an odd one. You would be better served by visiting the Harrington Post and those related to MSNBC. And, your leaving would improve this blog 100%. Thanking you in advance.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    government always achieves the exact opposite of its intent. That’s a rule of the State that holds throughout the universe.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    jj you are right. Our government if proof of that. The only branch that has been successful has been the military. Everything they have their hands in would have been required to file bankruptcy. The Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, The Drug Program, The Clunker Program, Social Security, Freddie Mac and Frannie Mae along with the FHA, Welfare etc etc etc…..now they have ownership in GM, Chrysler, AIG, Bank of America, Citigroup and on and on and on.
    And now they want to control health care with the public option. How scarry can this become? Especially when you consider what they’ve done to Medcare and Medicaid. Seniors will lose their advantage three coverage. Now we have 22 far-left loonies who wants to insure illegals????

  • proudhon

    @mick, how different do you think the average american’s life would be without a national post office, medicare, medicaid, federally underwritten / insured mortgages and bank accounts, fire fighters, public schools, roads, libraries, national parks, monuments, etc? also: did you know that there are three “branches” of the federal government, and that “the military” is not one of them?

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    proudhon you’re an annoying reetard with the intelligence of a ball of snot. snot from an idiot dog. you and you goddamn ‘dialogues” and “genuine debate” crap. who the hell could debate you, you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground. Are you the mental patient who keeps getting on my case about “ad hominem” arguments? You know why ad hominem arguments are useful in debate? because it keeps the speaker from taking a club to his idiot opponent’s head. So ad hominem arguments are good as life savers. And in your case you need to hope the ad hominem arguments used in debates with you never stop otherwise your dumbass head’s gonna go rolling down the street. You’re one of those imbecile State-Grown parasites who can’t imagine life without one portion of the population being looted to keep some other portion of the population in existence. If the government went away you would be the first thing to drop dead because your entire support system would be gone. Good enough reason for me to get on my knees and start prayin’ that the government disappears. Cause when it goes so will you. Thank you Jesus.

  • proudhon

    keep selling that sizzle jj. i’ll admit, you’re slightly better at it than kevin, even if your blog is insufferable.

    and for the record (since you seem to have a hard time understanding what i’ve written), i am anti-state. i am a small-l libertarian, in the traditional sense of the word (that is, before market apologists and their dupes bastardized the word). i welcome the day the state withers away, but am convinced capitalism is a far more immediate parasite. i look forward to the day we can fight it out in the streets.

  • Marie-Jeanne Cotner

    Proudhon, I just started reading this blog a few weeks ago – so I’m not familiar with all the posts you’ve written. When you say you’re convinced “capitalism is a far more immediate parasite” and that you “look forward to the day we can fight it out in the streets,” I wonder how you reconcile that with being a libertarian. (I’m not arguing: I’m genuinely curious.) How do you define capitalism?

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Thank you Proudhon for bringing my typing error to my attention. You are one smart person Proudhon. Your intelligence has some of us baffled….because we are still searching for it. To correct what I previously wrote Proudhon I should have said the only successful operation from Federal taxpayer dollars is the military. All other Federal operations would have had to file for bankruptcy if they were required to operate like a public or private entity. Another point Mr Proudhon I was talking about the Federal government. Sorry, keep forgetting you do not have the intelligence to realize that. Should answer your question before continuing….the three branches of government are the Federal, state and local. Is that correct Mr Proudhon?

    So back to the point I was trying to make….there is no branch of the Federal government other than the military that has been successful. And now they want to create the public option in their health care package is beyond reasoning when you consider their past failures.

    If I was on a certain blog I’d throw a couple “F” bombs your way Mr Proudhon, but will only say you are one flaming a-hole if there ever was one!! And, you can go to hell!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Proudhon…forgot to mention…please do us a favor and go step into an empty elvevator shaft from the 50th floor! Thanking you in advance.

  • Jim Schurmann

    Good question Marie. I would like to know how he defines Capitalism also since Capitalism is what made our Country the greatest Nation in the world as opposed to all the failed dictator nations in the world.
    When people are layed off from work do they go to the poor side of town to look for a job or do they apply to those Evil Capitalists as Proudhon seems to imply.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Hey Proudhon I wouldn’t say jj’s blog is insufferable…you are the one thats insufferable…actually, you are worse than those pesky picnic ants!!!

  • proudhon

    @marie-jeanne, I identify with libertarianism in the traditional, original sense of the word, as an opponent of those things that are impediments to our collective liberty. Principal among those impediments is capitalism, or, the system by which this society has chosen to produce commodities and value. the logic of the market, and the (highly rational) impulse to extract the most value from each commodity produced, is inherently exploitative. the immediate object of this exploitation are those doing the producing (i.e., labor) — surplus value comes directly out of their pockets. the broader of this exploitation are the poor, in general. there’s a lot of talk about “ghettos” on this blog, well, those ghettos are not natural. they are produced. and they are produced through a process of underdevelopment that is a consequence of profit accumulation. every time a producer leaves an american city and heads to the global south, they are doing so to maximize surplus value, and they’re doing it at the expense of our fellow citizens. in the final analysis, this relationship between producer and labor is inherently antagonistic. the state has historically kept the conflict between these two groups contained, mostly through threat and use of force (on the one side, quashing unionization efforts, on the other side, enforcing minimal wage standards like the minimum wage). but if you take the state out of the equation, the dynamic would change quite a bit. if you are actually interested in political economy, I would say begin with the essential texts: david ricardo, adam smith, and karl marx. pay particular attention to the way each of their labor theories of value.

    @mick, my point is that there are a whole range of things that we take for granted and value in our everyday lives that would crumble if subjected to the logic of the market. and that if we allow that to happen, our lives, at least in the immediate, will be fundamentally different.

    and even though you persist in saying cartoonishly “mean” things to me, I won’t pick on you about how your answer to my question is incorrect. but as a fellow citizen, I have to inform you that the three branches of federal government are not “the federal, the state, and the local.”

    @jim, I don’t think I understand your point. generally, I think we are all too intelligent and creative to be stuck having to choose between two failed systems (liberal free-market capitalism, or state-controlled despotism).

  • Carmen

    Racism is not dead judging by some of the posts here. Some people insist on blaming white people for all the evils in the world. Considering that America is mostly white what does that say about this country, that it is mostly evil? Shame on those who refuse to let racism die and continue to benefit from it. You are the cockroaches of our society.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Proudhon….it appears you have a problem reading. I did not the say the three branches of Federal government. My comment had to do with the wasteful spending of taxpayer dollars and where the military was the only branch that is efficient and spends within their budget. The three branches of government that tax cititizens are the Federal, state and local.

    Another thing it’s difficult understanding where you actually stand because its hard to understand what you write. If the manufacturing industry didn’t move parts of their operations south of the border or to other countries they would not be able to compete in the world market. The cause of these problems has been Washington, DC and Wall Street taking advantage of Washington’s stupidity. You have to remember more than 70% of USA workers are somehow involved with Wall Street. Their own investments or through their funded pension plans. Finally, the union. We all know the problems they have caused.

  • proudhon

    @mick, in the interest of basic civics, i can’t let you persist in believing that the three branches of government are the federal, the state, and the local.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Proudhon….
    From a taxpaying standpoint the three taxing authorities are the Federal Government, the state government and the local government. Go back and read my comments and you will find that everything I have said relates to taxpayer dollars. If my telling you that the three taxing government entities are the Federal, state and local is beyond your comprehension then you should refer to a Income Tax 101 text.

  • proudhon

    alright, you made me do it mick. i was trying to be cordial, but you can’t quit. if you’re interested in what the “three branches of government” are, i suggest you read the constitution. if you’re looking for something a little less heady, why not start with this, http://tinyurl.com/2adml let me know if any of it is too “hard to understand.”

  • Fic

    @Mick
    You suggested that I ramble and bumble and say nothing. But I must have said something for you to recommend that I join another post. You seem to be really, really mad ….take it easy!!! Hearts and minds are not won by anger. All I am trying to do is educate you to think for your self. You have not challenged me on anything I said, but you wanted me to quit. How about satisfying your intellectual curiosity? How do you expect for all of us to agree on what Kevin says?

  • Jim Schurmann

    Capitalism isn’t a failed system. I’ll take Capitalism over state-controlled depotism anyday.How is that Marxism working out for the Cubans and other people who live under Marxist,Socialist and Communist rule who risk their lives to leave and come to America?

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Marie Jean Cotner; you’re wasting your time, and probably all of the rest of ours, asking Proudhon to actually itemize and categorize her thought processes. She doesn’t have any of her own buzzwords even defined. She doesn’t know what she is. She’s a libertarian who loves the State, she’s a capitalist who hates commerce, she’s a conservative who is worried about the Zambezeez not getting enough corn, she’s a progressive who wants to save the forest, she’s a human rights advocate who wants to take it to the streets. I think she’s just a Negro Lady, one with hair like Angela Davis, who doesn’t know how to deal with Kevin without showing her true wrath at his “betrayal uv his owe-pressed bruvvuz.” We’re also dealing with a person with a certain corrosive agenda in her soul. She has made it her mission to put out any fires of hope that might be being generated on this site. This is apparent in that she has never ONCE said anything of a rah-rah nature regarding what is going on here and yet she insists she is a conservative libertarian yada yada yada somethingorother. She’s just a calmly disruptive energy. Well, at least she WAS. Now she’s GETTING disrupted. The fangs should come out soon and the soft feathery covering should melt away and the upright crocodile will appear, whipping its tail back and forth violently across the dark cobblestones of its lair and hissing angrily and promising death to us all. Like a Muslim.

  • proudhon

    jj, you’re not that strong of a reader, are you?

  • proudhon

    jj, become a friend to books.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    I only use books to steady the table.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    sometimes i’ll put a book under the harley to catch the drips. my own books are best for that because the paper’s real a-zorbent. I threw a book at a cat once. once i came up behind a guy in school, the short time i was there, and whacked the bastard in a sneak attack. he got VERY pissed. so i fled. no way he could catch me, i was too scared. I have a stack of books, by bertrand russel i think, pinioned between the fridge and the wall to keep the fridge from vibrating.

  • proudhon

    bravo. another fine performance. like i said, you are much better at this than kevin.

  • proudhon

    you even worked in a plug for your own book without anywhere near the mercenary desperation of one kevin’s ‘buy-my-book-make-it-#1-on-amazon’ posts or tweets. well done.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    his book’s a lot better than mine. it deserves to be hyped.

  • Jim Schurmann

    Proudhon:
    Nice try but I don’t buy your basic premise that Capitalism is a failed system.Capitalism is what makes America the greatest Nation on Earth and makes us the place to flee to from the despots of the World.
    What I’m saying is step away from your computer and visit the real world.Our society would collapse without the Capitalist system.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @proudhon – Nobody’s twisting your arm to read my blog and shameless plugs! I guess you hate seeing a black man sell his book and make a couple of bones. You prefer that I get my alms from the “gubment,” right? You racists are just too easy. You come off like a “helper,” but you really just want to beat me, no WHIP me! I know your type! LMBO!

  • proudhon

    far be it for me to begrudge a man his living, kevin. i just find shameless self promotion a bit gauche. to each his own though.

    and if i wasn’t already convinced that this whole gimmick of yours was a complete put on, this response to me would’ve sealed it. i mean i’ve been running roughshod through your comments section for a week, calling you out on all kinds of nonsense, and the one time you pipe up to defend yourself is when i mock your incessant shilling. you’re funny.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    I’ve read jj’s book and enjoyed it as I’m sure I will when I read Kevin’s.

    FIC….as I said you ramble, bamble and really say nothing….you are too boring. One of those people who enjoy hearing themselves ramble and bamble and say nothing. And, you’re trying to educate me? Well FIC you remind me of my micro and macro economic instructors I had while attending college. They like you didn’t know their ass from their elbow!!

    Proudhon….what a laugh! You ordial!!! That has to be the joke of the day. Just like you a big joke!!

  • proudhon

    mick, stop trying to save face by fixating on me. i was quite “ordial” toward you while you embarrassed yourself in consecutive posts. learn from it, grow, accept you made a mistake, and move on from addressing me. i haven’t got anything else to say to you.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Proudhon….excuse me for my typo error “cordial” …. glad to hear “you haven’t got anything else to say to you”….as I said you are the joke of the day…a big joke! Oh, by the way foghorn, or whatever hell you call yourself, certain aspects of the financial world refer to the tax entities of government as branches.

    Oh, and by the way foghorn I cannot imagine any human fixating on you!

  • Marie-Jeanne Cotner

    Proudhon, Thank you for responding. I have never read Ricardo, but I have read Marx and Smith and will be rereading both this year while I assign them to our homeschooled son. (Maybe we’ll add Ricardo to the mix.) I was surprised by your statement that traditional libertarianism opposes impediments to our *collective* liberty (is that a valid paraphrase?), rather than to our *individual* liberty. It is hard for me to understand how one would define “collective liberty” – I haven’t yet thought of a way that makes sense to me. Anyway, in the interest of responding soon, I read Wikipedia’s entry on “Libertarianism.” Is the following (from that article) anything like what you believe?:

    “Libertarian socialists—the first political activists to adopt the term libertarian in the mid-19th century—are opposed to all structures of authority and hierarchy in personal relations and the larger social order.[15] Most notably they are opposed to state power and forms of private property such as capital, but also oppose patriarchy and racism.[16][17][18] These libertarians often believe in the abolition of private property and may be called non-propertarian or anti-propertarian.[19][20] They do not seek state solutions, instead looking to voluntary and popularly controlled associations.” (stet)

    I myself believe in the free market – but I wonder what you would think of the following: My son is convinced that the winning platform in the next (and any subsequent) election should be one which emphasizes states’ rights above all else. He thinks that the president should concern him/herself mainly with national defense (etc. – I’m simplifying greatly for the sake of brevity) and to most other questions respond, “That’s none of my business: it’s for the individual states to decide.” Given this model – which would really be going back to the state of affairs when de Tocqueville was visiting – states the majority of whose citizens wish to organize under socialist principles could do so, while states whose citizens desire a free market system could also do so. (Again, greatly simplifying.) One advantage to this would be that people would see the successes and failures of fellow states and copy or avoid as needed.

    What do you (and anyone else) think?

  • proudhon

    Marie-Jeanne, i’ve got a fairly brief answer, because i’ve got to finish some work, and i’ve spent too much time already today popping in and out of this place. again, I use the term libertarian as it was originally intended, not in its present ayn rand-ian free-marketeer co-opted form.

    as far as i can tell, there’s no such thing as a strictly individual liberty – the notion of liberty is already implicitly bound up with a set of limitations placed on that liberty by the larger society (collective). for example, we all believe in individual rights, but presumably no one would, as a matter of libertarian principle, support the “liberty” of one of us to murder another of us. this is an extreme example, but you get the point.

    liberty then is always already a collective question. our individual liberties always stop where our fellow citizen’s begin. given that, a libertarian society is left with the practical work of determining the contours of that liberty and assessing what are and are not impediments on the liberties of ourselves and our fellow women/men. for me, and for traditional libertarian thinkers (people like proudhon, bakunin, kropotkin, marx to an extant, to name a few) the existence of any anti-democratic institution in a society is an impediment on liberty. the free market, which again, is a system of value production through labor exploitation, is fundamentally anti-democratic and therefore anti-libertarian.

    does that make sense? I’m sure I can elaborate on this more if you find it useful, though i’m not sure how many more times i’ll be visiting this blog.

    I am incredibly impressed that your son reads smith, marx, (possibly ricardo), etc. as part of his home schooling. even if he finds himself ideologically opposed to marx, at least he’ll know what he’s talking about when someone like me tries to debate him. anyway, good for you. with respect to his position on the presidential election, I don’t think anyone running on a state’s rights platform in a national election would be able to escape the fact that much of the electorate associates “states rights” with slavery and jim crow.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Marie-Jeanne; I think your son is a lot smarter than Proudhon for one thing. I also think he should pursue his States Rights notion even to the point of championing the States kicking Washington DC out of the Union, since this is the United States and not the United States Plus One Renegade “District” exhibiting little if any loyalty to the States. When the District of Columbia gets its own star on the flag then maybe we can consider it a part of the Country. At the moment it’s more of a satellite of Persia.

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @proudhon Again you have shown your lack of education on the issue of politics and the role of the Democrat party in enslaving the black population. I will try to give you a very brief lesson. When the welfare crap was started it was to assist families that had lost the major breadwinner to death or disability. It strangely morphed into something that people took advantage of (Free money for you taken from your neighbors) This was especially harmful to the newly defiant black population that had been taught, as they are being used today, to overwhelm the system by applying for every type of government assistance possible. Do you not see the downside??? The black males do not have to take responsibility for empregnating women. This was not the case before welfare started. The black females do not have to name the father of the kids they have out of wedlock. All they have to do is say “I have another kid. I need more money” This frees up the black males to hang out on the street, sell and buy drugs and get the crap beat out of them by the police. Since they are still living with the mother of their kids secretly, they don’t have to work. Do you understand so far? Before you ay there are white people doing the same, I will give you that fact. They believe that if the government is going to give the blacks free money, they should get free money too
    Now, here is the trap: The government is never going to give anybody enough money to get out of poverty. If they did they would lose that vote. As long as you get just enough money to last the month, you have to stay in the system. You live in a place mostly because that’s what you can afford. Are you stupid enough to believe that blacks want to stay in the ghetto? Don’t you think they would move if they could? That is what I call slavery with an invisible fence. Blacks are told that they are inferior, that they can’t make it without the Democrat’s help. Quite frankly, too many of us believed that crap for too long and now there is no escape. Further, if you do escape, you are called Uncle Tom, sellout, puppet for the white man. This is more than likely why you keep ragging on Kevin. He has proven that you can escape. I, while not as successful as Kevin, have escaped and I expect that you will now find dirty names for me. Guess what? I will galdly accept any name you want to call me. We sing a song in church that says “My past is over. I’m not going back, You make all things new and I will follow you, forward” When it comes to politics, religion and anything else, that is my motto.
    Thanks, Kevin. Keep schooling these idiots.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Roosevelt….very, very well said.

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @Proudhon Just in case you think I made up the facts I mentioned above, read this article:

    GEORGE ALVIN WILEY

    African-American militant of the 1960s, widely regarded as the father of the
    “welfare rights” movement
    Founder of the National Welfare Reform Organization
    One of the earliest and most successful practitioners of the
    “change-through-crisis” formula prescribed by the “Cloward-Piven strategy”
    Mentor of Wade Rathke, founder and leader of the radical cult ACORN
    Pioneer of the radical “franchise” concept, now used by ACORN and other
    groups, which enables local activists to quickly and easily build local
    outlets of national activist organizations through replication

    George Alvin Wiley is best known for his effective use of the so-called
    “Cloward-Piven strategy,” which called for swamping the welfare rolls with
    new applicants, beyond what the system could bear. The plan’s inventors,
    Columbia University political scientists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances
    Fox Piven, hoped that the resulting economic collapse would lead to
    political turmoil and ultimately socialism. Cloward and Piven recruited
    Wiley to put their plan to work in the streets.

    One of six children, George Wiley was born in Bayonne, New Jersey on
    February 26, 1931, but soon moved with his family to Warwick, Rhode Island,
    a mostly white suburb of Providence. Wiley’s father supported his family by
    working as a postal clerk, but his heart lay in political activism, which he
    pursued by editing a weekly newspaper for the black community and leading
    the Rhode Island Urban League. Wiley’s mother was also active in black
    charities and political organizing.

    Wiley earned his undergraduate degree at the University of Rhode Island in
    1953; received a doctorate in organic chemistry from Cornell University in
    1957; fulfilled a six-month ROTC obligation as a first lieutenant in the
    Army at Fort Lee, Virginia; and subsequently accepted a post-doctoral
    fellowship at UCLA. He taught chemistry for two years at the University of
    California at Berkeley, whereupon he took a teaching position at Syracuse
    University in New York.

    As his career progressed, Wiley never forgot his political upbringing. He
    led a voter registration drive in Petersburg, Virginia while serving in the
    Army. During his stint teaching at UC Berkeley, he counseled student
    activists taking part in sit-in protests. But only after he moved to
    Syracuse did Wiley’s militancy begin to emerge in full. He joined the
    Syracuse University faculty in 1960. That same year, he founded the Syracuse
    chapter of CORE (Congress for Racial Equality) and became its first
    Chairman. On November 23, 1964, Wiley accepted the job of Associate National
    Director of CORE, making him second in command to National Director James
    Farmer. Wiley left academia that year to become a fulltime activist, moving
    with his family to New York City’s Lower East Side.

    Within 14 months, however, Wiley became disillusioned with CORE’s
    conventional approach to civil rights. He left the organization in January
    1965, forming his own activist group called the Poverty Rights Action Center
    (PRAC), with headquarters in Washington, DC. Reflecting his new militancy,
    Wiley exchanged his business suits for dashikis, jeans, scuffed shoes, and a
    newly grown Afro. He took up residence in Washington’s Dupont Circle — not
    far from the Institute for Policy Studies, whose doctrine of “creative
    disorder” resonated with the underlying goals of the Cloward-Piven strategy.

    Wiley was just getting PRAC up and running when Cloward and Piven began
    promoting their “flood-the-rolls, bankrupt-the-cities” plan in the activist
    community. Cloward and Piven believed that their plan could spark a
    nationwide movement. To lead the movement, they sought an experienced
    organizer with vision, charisma and — most important of all — street
    credibility with inner-city blacks. That organizer turned out to be George
    Alvin Wiley.

    Wiley’s first act was to organize nationwide protests by welfare recipients.
    From June 20-30, 1966, about forty welfare recipients marched 155 miles from
    Cleveland to Columbus, Ohio, gathering at the state capitol with about 2,000
    supporters to demand increased benefits. Their June 30 arrival in Columbus
    was timed to coincide with rallies in fifteen other cities, including New
    York, Trenton, Chicago, Louisville, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Wiley
    declared “the birth of a movement.” It became known as the Welfare Rights
    Movement.

    Wiley’s National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO) held its founding
    convention in Washington DC, August 25-27, 1967. Closely following Cloward
    and Piven’s recommendations, Wiley and his followers invaded welfare
    offices — often violently — bullying social workers and loudly demanding
    every penny to which the law “entitled” them. Regarding Wiley’s tactics, The
    New York Times reported in 1970: “There have been sit-ins in legislative
    chambers, including a United States Senate committee hearing, mass
    demonstrations of several thousand welfare recipients, school boycotts,
    picket lines, mounted police, tear gas, arrests — and, on occasion,
    rock-throwing, smashed glass doors, overturned desks, scattered papers and
    ripped-out phones.”

    These methods proved effective. “The flooding succeeded beyond Wiley’s
    wildest dreams,” writes Sol Stern in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal.
    “From 1965 to 1974, the number of single-parent households on welfare soared
    from 4.3 million to 10.8 million, despite mostly flush economic times.”

    In accordance with the Cloward-Piven strategy, NWRO pushed for a guaranteed
    living income, which it defined, in 1968, as $5,500 per year for every
    American family with four children. Wiley introduced the battle cry,
    “Fifty-five hundred or fight!,” raising it the following year to “Sixty-five
    hundred or fight!” Though the guaranteed income never progressed beyond the
    level of rhetoric, the tens of billions of dollars in welfare entitlements
    that Wiley and his followers managed to squeeze from state and local
    governments came very close to sinking the U.S. economy, just as Cloward and
    Piven had predicted.

    Wiley and his welfare radicals terrorized social workers all over the United
    States, but their greatest success came in New York City. Newly elected in
    1966, arch-liberal Mayor John Lindsay knuckled under to every demand from
    Wiley’s NWRO. New York’s welfare rolls had already been growing by 12
    percent per year before Lindsay took office. The growth rate jumped to 50
    percent annually in 1966. “By the early 1970s, one person was on the welfare
    rolls in New York City for every two working in the city’s private economy,”
    writes Sol Stern in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal. As a direct
    result of its reckless welfare spending, New York City was forced to declare
    bankruptcy in 1975.

    Crucial to NWRO’s success was its business model, which evinced certain odd
    parallels with the franchising strategy of hamburger chains such as
    McDonald’s and Burger King. Franchise chains grow through replication. Their
    founders create successful, easy-to-duplicate businesses, then sell licenses
    to individual franchisees, who set up exact copies of the business, at their
    own expense, in their own local markets. In addition to the licensing fee,
    each franchisee is required to pay a percentage of sales each month to the
    parent company, in exchange for the privilege of using its name and business
    system.

    NWRO worked in a similar fashion. It encouraged local activists to set up
    independent chapters in their communities. Each chapter became a profit
    center in its own right, generating money from its own local operations.
    Whereas McDonald’s made money by selling hamburgers, NWRO made money by
    teaching people to exploit the welfare system, then charging its
    beneficiaries membership fees for the privilege of profiting from NWRO’s
    shakedown operations.

    Membership fees alone did not cover NWRO’s expenses, however. Wiley’s
    radical franchise required outside financing to stay afloat. This came in
    the form of grants from federal agencies and private philanthropists. In his
    book The Tragedy of American Compassion, former communist and promoter of
    “compassionate conservatism” Marvin Olasky notes that NWRO received more
    than $500,000 from the National Council of Churches from 1968 to 1971. At
    one point, Johnson administration officials signed a contract to give NWRO
    $435,000. Wiley received only $106,000 of this sum before President Nixon
    cancelled the grant in 1969. Despite such occasional setbacks, federal aid
    flowed freely to Wiley’s group from many sources and in many different
    forms, including free legal aid and free office space from the Legal
    Services division of the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO).

    Fueled by its multitudinous income streams, NWRO chapters sprouted up from
    coast to coast. By 1969, NWRO claimed a dues-paying membership of 22,500
    families, with 523 chapters across the nation.

    With Richard Nixon’s accession to the White House in 1968, the federal funds
    that drove NWRO began drying up. So did the public’s patience for the sort
    of violent tactics Wiley promoted. As money tightened, NWRO’s leaders began
    turning on each other. White activists were driven from leadership positions
    by black extremists. Wiley himself came under attack for his middle-class
    background. A poor people’s organization should be run by poor people, the
    insurgents declared. Pressure grew to fill every leadership slot with
    welfare recipients, rather than with the professional activists who had
    previously led NWRO.

    Wiley announced his resignation in a New York Times interview of December
    16, 1971. “The welfare rights movement created a political and economic
    crisis around the issue of welfare which could have led to reform or
    repression,” he told the Times. “What we are witnessing is repression, and
    we need a broad organized movement to counter it.”

    Wiley said that he would officially leave NWRO on January 31, 1972, in order
    to start a new group called The Movement for Economic Justice. “In some
    ways, people are tired of the issue of welfare and the label is a problem …”
    he said. “The real welfare in this country is going to the Department of
    Defense, the railroads, the airlines and to other corporations through tax
    loopholes.” Wiley declared that he would reach out across class and racial
    lines, building a coalition of the working poor, the unemployed, senior
    citizens and the lower middle-class (those making $5,000 to $15,000 per
    year) around such issues as national health insurance, consumer rights,
    housing, daycare, and tax reform. He explained that he was not abandoning
    his original mission, but expanding it. Welfare was only one of many paths
    to his ultimate goal: “income redistribution.”

    The Movement for Economic Justice never got off the ground. Wiley died in a
    boating accident on August 8, 1973. NWRO closed its doors two years later.
    Its stormy history had lasted only eight years, from 1967 to 1975. But
    Wiley’s concept of the radical franchise chain, whose operations can be
    duplicated in any community, continues to inspire imitators to this day,
    such as ACORN and the PIRG groups. Former NWRO activist Mark Toney credits
    Wiley with “introducing the first organizing model that was consciously
    designed to be replicable anywhere in the country. The many community
    organizations today that use a standard model when they start a chapter in a
    new community have NWRO to thank for the concept.”

    Wiley’s legacy lives on most powerfully through ACORN — a nationwide
    movement founded and led by Wiley’s protegé Wade Rathke, a former Students
    for a Democratic Society militant and onetime NWRO organizer. ACORN and its
    front groups today are the leading practitioners of the “Cloward-Piven
    strategy” that Wiley pioneered

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @proudhon here is the basis for my earlier comments. Notice the name on the 6th line!!!

    GEORGE ALVIN WILEY

    African-American militant of the 1960s, widely regarded as the father of the
    “welfare rights” movement
    Founder of the National Welfare Reform Organization
    One of the earliest and most successful practitioners of the
    “change-through-crisis” formula prescribed by the “Cloward-Piven strategy”
    Mentor of Wade Rathke, founder and leader of the radical cult ACORN
    Pioneer of the radical “franchise” concept, now used by ACORN and other
    groups, which enables local activists to quickly and easily build local
    outlets of national activist organizations through replication

    George Alvin Wiley is best known for his effective use of the so-called
    “Cloward-Piven strategy,” which called for swamping the welfare rolls with
    new applicants, beyond what the system could bear. The plan’s inventors,
    Columbia University political scientists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances
    Fox Piven, hoped that the resulting economic collapse would lead to
    political turmoil and ultimately socialism. Cloward and Piven recruited
    Wiley to put their plan to work in the streets.

    One of six children, George Wiley was born in Bayonne, New Jersey on
    February 26, 1931, but soon moved with his family to Warwick, Rhode Island,
    a mostly white suburb of Providence. Wiley’s father supported his family by
    working as a postal clerk, but his heart lay in political activism, which he
    pursued by editing a weekly newspaper for the black community and leading
    the Rhode Island Urban League. Wiley’s mother was also active in black
    charities and political organizing.

    Wiley earned his undergraduate degree at the University of Rhode Island in
    1953; received a doctorate in organic chemistry from Cornell University in
    1957; fulfilled a six-month ROTC obligation as a first lieutenant in the
    Army at Fort Lee, Virginia; and subsequently accepted a post-doctoral
    fellowship at UCLA. He taught chemistry for two years at the University of
    California at Berkeley, whereupon he took a teaching position at Syracuse
    University in New York.

    As his career progressed, Wiley never forgot his political upbringing. He
    led a voter registration drive in Petersburg, Virginia while serving in the
    Army. During his stint teaching at UC Berkeley, he counseled student
    activists taking part in sit-in protests. But only after he moved to
    Syracuse did Wiley’s militancy begin to emerge in full. He joined the
    Syracuse University faculty in 1960. That same year, he founded the Syracuse
    chapter of CORE (Congress for Racial Equality) and became its first
    Chairman. On November 23, 1964, Wiley accepted the job of Associate National
    Director of CORE, making him second in command to National Director James
    Farmer. Wiley left academia that year to become a fulltime activist, moving
    with his family to New York City’s Lower East Side.

    Within 14 months, however, Wiley became disillusioned with CORE’s
    conventional approach to civil rights. He left the organization in January
    1965, forming his own activist group called the Poverty Rights Action Center
    (PRAC), with headquarters in Washington, DC. Reflecting his new militancy,
    Wiley exchanged his business suits for dashikis, jeans, scuffed shoes, and a
    newly grown Afro. He took up residence in Washington’s Dupont Circle — not
    far from the Institute for Policy Studies, whose doctrine of “creative
    disorder” resonated with the underlying goals of the Cloward-Piven strategy.

    Wiley was just getting PRAC up and running when Cloward and Piven began
    promoting their “flood-the-rolls, bankrupt-the-cities” plan in the activist
    community. Cloward and Piven believed that their plan could spark a
    nationwide movement. To lead the movement, they sought an experienced
    organizer with vision, charisma and — most important of all — street
    credibility with inner-city blacks. That organizer turned out to be George
    Alvin Wiley.

    Wiley’s first act was to organize nationwide protests by welfare recipients.
    From June 20-30, 1966, about forty welfare recipients marched 155 miles from
    Cleveland to Columbus, Ohio, gathering at the state capitol with about 2,000
    supporters to demand increased benefits. Their June 30 arrival in Columbus
    was timed to coincide with rallies in fifteen other cities, including New
    York, Trenton, Chicago, Louisville, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Wiley
    declared “the birth of a movement.” It became known as the Welfare Rights
    Movement.

    Wiley’s National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO) held its founding
    convention in Washington DC, August 25-27, 1967. Closely following Cloward
    and Piven’s recommendations, Wiley and his followers invaded welfare
    offices — often violently — bullying social workers and loudly demanding
    every penny to which the law “entitled” them. Regarding Wiley’s tactics, The
    New York Times reported in 1970: “There have been sit-ins in legislative
    chambers, including a United States Senate committee hearing, mass
    demonstrations of several thousand welfare recipients, school boycotts,
    picket lines, mounted police, tear gas, arrests — and, on occasion,
    rock-throwing, smashed glass doors, overturned desks, scattered papers and
    ripped-out phones.”

    These methods proved effective. “The flooding succeeded beyond Wiley’s
    wildest dreams,” writes Sol Stern in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal.
    “From 1965 to 1974, the number of single-parent households on welfare soared
    from 4.3 million to 10.8 million, despite mostly flush economic times.”

    In accordance with the Cloward-Piven strategy, NWRO pushed for a guaranteed
    living income, which it defined, in 1968, as $5,500 per year for every
    American family with four children. Wiley introduced the battle cry,
    “Fifty-five hundred or fight!,” raising it the following year to “Sixty-five
    hundred or fight!” Though the guaranteed income never progressed beyond the
    level of rhetoric, the tens of billions of dollars in welfare entitlements
    that Wiley and his followers managed to squeeze from state and local
    governments came very close to sinking the U.S. economy, just as Cloward and
    Piven had predicted.

    Wiley and his welfare radicals terrorized social workers all over the United
    States, but their greatest success came in New York City. Newly elected in
    1966, arch-liberal Mayor John Lindsay knuckled under to every demand from
    Wiley’s NWRO. New York’s welfare rolls had already been growing by 12
    percent per year before Lindsay took office. The growth rate jumped to 50
    percent annually in 1966. “By the early 1970s, one person was on the welfare
    rolls in New York City for every two working in the city’s private economy,”
    writes Sol Stern in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal. As a direct
    result of its reckless welfare spending, New York City was forced to declare
    bankruptcy in 1975.

    Crucial to NWRO’s success was its business model, which evinced certain odd
    parallels with the franchising strategy of hamburger chains such as
    McDonald’s and Burger King. Franchise chains grow through replication. Their
    founders create successful, easy-to-duplicate businesses, then sell licenses
    to individual franchisees, who set up exact copies of the business, at their
    own expense, in their own local markets. In addition to the licensing fee,
    each franchisee is required to pay a percentage of sales each month to the
    parent company, in exchange for the privilege of using its name and business
    system.

    NWRO worked in a similar fashion. It encouraged local activists to set up
    independent chapters in their communities. Each chapter became a profit
    center in its own right, generating money from its own local operations.
    Whereas McDonald’s made money by selling hamburgers, NWRO made money by
    teaching people to exploit the welfare system, then charging its
    beneficiaries membership fees for the privilege of profiting from NWRO’s
    shakedown operations.

    Membership fees alone did not cover NWRO’s expenses, however. Wiley’s
    radical franchise required outside financing to stay afloat. This came in
    the form of grants from federal agencies and private philanthropists. In his
    book The Tragedy of American Compassion, former communist and promoter of
    “compassionate conservatism” Marvin Olasky notes that NWRO received more
    than $500,000 from the National Council of Churches from 1968 to 1971. At
    one point, Johnson administration officials signed a contract to give NWRO
    $435,000. Wiley received only $106,000 of this sum before President Nixon
    cancelled the grant in 1969. Despite such occasional setbacks, federal aid
    flowed freely to Wiley’s group from many sources and in many different
    forms, including free legal aid and free office space from the Legal
    Services division of the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO).

    Fueled by its multitudinous income streams, NWRO chapters sprouted up from
    coast to coast. By 1969, NWRO claimed a dues-paying membership of 22,500
    families, with 523 chapters across the nation.

    With Richard Nixon’s accession to the White House in 1968, the federal funds
    that drove NWRO began drying up. So did the public’s patience for the sort
    of violent tactics Wiley promoted. As money tightened, NWRO’s leaders began
    turning on each other. White activists were driven from leadership positions
    by black extremists. Wiley himself came under attack for his middle-class
    background. A poor people’s organization should be run by poor people, the
    insurgents declared. Pressure grew to fill every leadership slot with
    welfare recipients, rather than with the professional activists who had
    previously led NWRO.

    Wiley announced his resignation in a New York Times interview of December
    16, 1971. “The welfare rights movement created a political and economic
    crisis around the issue of welfare which could have led to reform or
    repression,” he told the Times. “What we are witnessing is repression, and
    we need a broad organized movement to counter it.”

    Wiley said that he would officially leave NWRO on January 31, 1972, in order
    to start a new group called The Movement for Economic Justice. “In some
    ways, people are tired of the issue of welfare and the label is a problem …”
    he said. “The real welfare in this country is going to the Department of
    Defense, the railroads, the airlines and to other corporations through tax
    loopholes.” Wiley declared that he would reach out across class and racial
    lines, building a coalition of the working poor, the unemployed, senior
    citizens and the lower middle-class (those making $5,000 to $15,000 per
    year) around such issues as national health insurance, consumer rights,
    housing, daycare, and tax reform. He explained that he was not abandoning
    his original mission, but expanding it. Welfare was only one of many paths
    to his ultimate goal: “income redistribution.”

    The Movement for Economic Justice never got off the ground. Wiley died in a
    boating accident on August 8, 1973. NWRO closed its doors two years later.
    Its stormy history had lasted only eight years, from 1967 to 1975. But
    Wiley’s concept of the radical franchise chain, whose operations can be
    duplicated in any community, continues to inspire imitators to this day,
    such as ACORN and the PIRG groups. Former NWRO activist Mark Toney credits
    Wiley with “introducing the first organizing model that was consciously
    designed to be replicable anywhere in the country. The many community
    organizations today that use a standard model when they start a chapter in a
    new community have NWRO to thank for the concept.”

    Wiley’s legacy lives on most powerfully through ACORN — a nationwide
    movement founded and led by Wiley’s protegé Wade Rathke, a former Students
    for a Democratic Society militant and onetime NWRO organizer. ACORN and its
    front groups today are the leading practitioners of the “Cloward-Piven
    strategy” that Wiley pioneered

  • proudhon

    @Roosevelt Moore, like i said in the thread about kevin “schooling a liberal youth,” i grew up on welfare and this scenario you’ve articulated does not reflect my experience. i don’t doubt your sincerity in believing it — and there have been plenty of discredited “experts” who have spun similar yarns, from moynihan on down — but i do question this theory’s basis in fact. and that makes me question the propagators of this theory’s motivations for propagating it.

    i have a lot to say about what you posted, but don’t have a lot of time to respond at the moment, so i’ll simply ask a couple of questions: 1) do you know how many people receive tanf benefits from the federal government each month? how many of them are adults? 2) do you know what % of those people is white / what % is black? do you have a sense of what a typical “ghetto” looked like in, say, 1920, or any time in our history before federal practice of issuing aid to needy families?

    those are all questions about *facts* that could either bolster or undermine your argument. i suggest you look them up.

    also: hey, congratulations on the high praise from mick. kudos!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @proudhon – Do you actually have a point to all your nonsense…seriously! I am THIS close to just banning your comments. What do you wish to achieve? It’s not working, and frankly I’m tiring of your comments.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

    @proudhon – The interesting thing in your “running roughshod” through my comments is that I spend NO time worrying about finding your internet home, yet you continually use the bathroom, and leave your turds floating in my home.

    I am flattered that I have piqued your interest. I find you a pseudo-intellectual who would like me to take you seriously…I don’t. I find you quite laughable, in that you seem to have a lot of free time, and you could possibly make a difference on another site. If you had any brains at all, you would KNOW that this blog is an echo-chamber for conservative thought. You Polanskiesque types who want to pimp your daughters, and place pimps and prostitutes in neighborhoods just won’t gain traction here.

    As I said in my earlier message, I am very close to dismissing you from the blog, and I KNOW that would hurt your feelings. But don’t worry, I won’t miss you.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Kevin, proudhon, as one of your other reader’s clued us in on, is a devotee of some guy named proudhon who was an “anarchist” who had his own version of some people telling others what to do. He is very taken with this arcane philosopher and is convinced that proudhon’s version of socialism is the correct one. the proudhon on this site is upset at the idea of private property, as all socialists are. he’s basically a thief without the balls to just go out and steal something. he wants that guy over there to steal it FOR him and then give it to him. I am also getting an extremely unhygienic and other weird vibe from the guy: like he keeps his semen in the freezer. Or something equally eerie. He also smells personal defeat to his own scurrilous goals emanating from this site and so is in a personal panic. He must “put a stop to this.” I will admit, he’s very calm about it. although “mick” did piss him off once. HAHAHAHAHA

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @proudhon Other than growing up in the ghetto on welfare I have no knowledge on the subject. But here is some info for you

    GEORGE ALVIN WILEY

    African-American militant of the 1960s, widely regarded as the father of the
    “welfare rights” movement
    Founder of the National Welfare Reform Organization
    One of the earliest and most successful practitioners of the
    “change-through-crisis” formula prescribed by the “Cloward-Piven strategy”
    Mentor of Wade Rathke, founder and leader of the radical cult ACORN
    Pioneer of the radical “franchise” concept, now used by ACORN and other
    groups, which enables local activists to quickly and easily build local
    outlets of national activist organizations through replication

    George Alvin Wiley is best known for his effective use of the so-called
    “Cloward-Piven strategy,” which called for swamping the welfare rolls with
    new applicants, beyond what the system could bear. The plan’s inventors,
    Columbia University political scientists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances
    Fox Piven, hoped that the resulting economic collapse would lead to
    political turmoil and ultimately socialism. Cloward and Piven recruited
    Wiley to put their plan to work in the streets.

    One of six children, George Wiley was born in Bayonne, New Jersey on
    February 26, 1931, but soon moved with his family to Warwick, Rhode Island,
    a mostly white suburb of Providence. Wiley’s father supported his family by
    working as a postal clerk, but his heart lay in political activism, which he
    pursued by editing a weekly newspaper for the black community and leading
    the Rhode Island Urban League. Wiley’s mother was also active in black
    charities and political organizing.

    Wiley earned his undergraduate degree at the University of Rhode Island in
    1953; received a doctorate in organic chemistry from Cornell University in
    1957; fulfilled a six-month ROTC obligation as a first lieutenant in the
    Army at Fort Lee, Virginia; and subsequently accepted a post-doctoral
    fellowship at UCLA. He taught chemistry for two years at the University of
    California at Berkeley, whereupon he took a teaching position at Syracuse
    University in New York.

    As his career progressed, Wiley never forgot his political upbringing. He
    led a voter registration drive in Petersburg, Virginia while serving in the
    Army. During his stint teaching at UC Berkeley, he counseled student
    activists taking part in sit-in protests. But only after he moved to
    Syracuse did Wiley’s militancy begin to emerge in full. He joined the
    Syracuse University faculty in 1960. That same year, he founded the Syracuse
    chapter of CORE (Congress for Racial Equality) and became its first
    Chairman. On November 23, 1964, Wiley accepted the job of Associate National
    Director of CORE, making him second in command to National Director James
    Farmer. Wiley left academia that year to become a fulltime activist, moving
    with his family to New York City’s Lower East Side.

    Within 14 months, however, Wiley became disillusioned with CORE’s
    conventional approach to civil rights. He left the organization in January
    1965, forming his own activist group called the Poverty Rights Action Center
    (PRAC), with headquarters in Washington, DC. Reflecting his new militancy,
    Wiley exchanged his business suits for dashikis, jeans, scuffed shoes, and a
    newly grown Afro. He took up residence in Washington’s Dupont Circle — not
    far from the Institute for Policy Studies, whose doctrine of “creative
    disorder” resonated with the underlying goals of the Cloward-Piven strategy.

    Wiley was just getting PRAC up and running when Cloward and Piven began
    promoting their “flood-the-rolls, bankrupt-the-cities” plan in the activist
    community. Cloward and Piven believed that their plan could spark a
    nationwide movement. To lead the movement, they sought an experienced
    organizer with vision, charisma and — most important of all — street
    credibility with inner-city blacks. That organizer turned out to be George
    Alvin Wiley.

    Wiley’s first act was to organize nationwide protests by welfare recipients.
    From June 20-30, 1966, about forty welfare recipients marched 155 miles from
    Cleveland to Columbus, Ohio, gathering at the state capitol with about 2,000
    supporters to demand increased benefits. Their June 30 arrival in Columbus
    was timed to coincide with rallies in fifteen other cities, including New
    York, Trenton, Chicago, Louisville, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Wiley
    declared “the birth of a movement.” It became known as the Welfare Rights
    Movement.

    Wiley’s National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO) held its founding
    convention in Washington DC, August 25-27, 1967. Closely following Cloward
    and Piven’s recommendations, Wiley and his followers invaded welfare
    offices — often violently — bullying social workers and loudly demanding
    every penny to which the law “entitled” them. Regarding Wiley’s tactics, The
    New York Times reported in 1970: “There have been sit-ins in legislative
    chambers, including a United States Senate committee hearing, mass
    demonstrations of several thousand welfare recipients, school boycotts,
    picket lines, mounted police, tear gas, arrests — and, on occasion,
    rock-throwing, smashed glass doors, overturned desks, scattered papers and
    ripped-out phones.”

    These methods proved effective. “The flooding succeeded beyond Wiley’s
    wildest dreams,” writes Sol Stern in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal.
    “From 1965 to 1974, the number of single-parent households on welfare soared
    from 4.3 million to 10.8 million, despite mostly flush economic times.”

    In accordance with the Cloward-Piven strategy, NWRO pushed for a guaranteed
    living income, which it defined, in 1968, as $5,500 per year for every
    American family with four children. Wiley introduced the battle cry,
    “Fifty-five hundred or fight!,” raising it the following year to “Sixty-five
    hundred or fight!” Though the guaranteed income never progressed beyond the
    level of rhetoric, the tens of billions of dollars in welfare entitlements
    that Wiley and his followers managed to squeeze from state and local
    governments came very close to sinking the U.S. economy, just as Cloward and
    Piven had predicted.

    Wiley and his welfare radicals terrorized social workers all over the United
    States, but their greatest success came in New York City. Newly elected in
    1966, arch-liberal Mayor John Lindsay knuckled under to every demand from
    Wiley’s NWRO. New York’s welfare rolls had already been growing by 12
    percent per year before Lindsay took office. The growth rate jumped to 50
    percent annually in 1966. “By the early 1970s, one person was on the welfare
    rolls in New York City for every two working in the city’s private economy,”
    writes Sol Stern in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal. As a direct
    result of its reckless welfare spending, New York City was forced to declare
    bankruptcy in 1975.

    Part 2 to come

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    here’s your error, pudnuts proudhom in your “thinking.” you insist there is no such thing as individual liberty. that there are restrictions on it. well, there aren’t. you actually are free to yell fire in the theater. you actually are at liberty to shoot your neighbor. in your universe “well you SHOULDNT be at liberty to do that!!” and since 99% of the people agree with you, we have “governments” to make the attempt to keep you at liberty from doing that. but you’re still at liberty to yell fire in the theater and to shoot your neighbor. so in other words, you have no idea what you are talking about. but you think you do. the only restrictions you ACTUALLY have on your liberty is you have no liberty to violate a law of nature. even nature cant violate them. there’s already a governing system in place for that. you have to DECIDE if you are going to yell fire in a theater or shoot your neighbor. but you are always at liberty to do so. unless of course someone else stops you. but the only way you could prevent anyone from yelling fire in a theater would be to bulldoze all the theaters. which would be government’s solution. the only way you could prevent everyone from shooting their neighbor would be to put everyone in isolation. in a cell. which is also how government is handling that. good job, pudnut: you want to stop the world. you’re the perfect Statist. some anarchist that is. reetard.

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @proudhon To answer your couple of questions; I don’t know how many people receive tanf benefits but I do know that for every dollar they get the government takes in five. 2. I really don’t care what the racial make up is because most people receiving the benefits are healthy, able bodied people who could get a job if they so desire. Finally, I may not know what a typical (what the hell is a typical ghetto anyway) ghetto looked like in 1920. I do know what the ghetto looked like from 1958 to 1978 BECAUSE THAT’S WHERE I LIVED, YOU IDIOT. I don’t need the government or the media to tell me what it was like where I grew up. My mother could have worked but chose not to because she could get “free” money from the government. She had twelve kids and got more money for each one without making the fathers pay child support. The ghettos are full of 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients who blindly follow their parents lead in gaming the system.
    The next time you bring this pantywaste argument, bring it to somebody who hasn’t been there and done that. I am 51 years old and since the time I was able to leave my mothers’ house in 1978, I have had a job and a place to call my own. It is not that difficult when you take your head out of your butt and decide that you want better than the ghetto life.

  • BigDave

    Roosevelt,

    Much as I enjoy figuring out the variety of meanings that could accrue to “pantywaste”, I must point out the correct spelling is “pantywaist’. It’s about having female underwear pulled high up on your waist, visible to others, indicating a lack of masculinity. :-)

    WASTE, now that’s another meaning entirely… :-))

    bless you for your confidence and clarity and boldness, RM..

  • Marie-Jeanne Cotner

    @jj solari: LOL re: your comment about DC being more of a Persian satellite!

    @Roosevelt Moore: I really enjoy your posts. Here’s a good, unorthodox (but apparently typical) example of how hard it can be to get *off* Welfare, anyone can read John Callahan’s autobiography (I think it’s called _Don’t Worry, He Won’t Get Far on Foot_, but I’m not sure); he’s a paraplegic who’s become a reasonably famous cartoonist. (Believe it or not.) His account of trying to get gigs and dealing with the system as he gets started is hilarious – after the fact. Also, I love the “pantywaist” reference – BigDave’s correction noted – which I first saw in reference to Obama in the British press last week. Kinda goes back to Kevin’s “sissy” reference.

    @proudhon – Thanks for the response. I need to think more about collective good vs. individual good. It seems to me that as long as the right to life, liberty & pursuit of happiness are guaranteed, then both the collective and the individual are safe. re: states’ rights being associated with Jim Crow & slavery, again, I think my earlier point covers that – although I don’t think you are wrong that others may make that association. Wouldn’t it be great to have a black candidate sporting that position?

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    whenever i pull female underwear high up my waist everyone calls me homo. not pantywaist. wtf.

  • http://www.yankfan.blogspot.com Mike M.

    Look, this president and his cohorts have been planning this for decades. Every move and calculation is being staged by people that are behind him every step of the way. This is no accident. There main goal is, in making this nation a socialist society. All they have done is changed the face of an old enemy. Obama has been groomed for this perticular time in our nations history. I was an SDS member in the 60’s. I know the agenda very well. Obama has picked up where Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton… left off. Why is it that these individuals are so out of the limelight, especially in these particular times? He does not want any unnessesary waves created, while he’s trying to bring forth his agenda as quickly as possible, now that they have the majority in all three branches. The only reason that it’s not working according to plan is because, Fox, Radio and Internet has pulled their coat and has exposed them, for who they really are. Socialist-Marxists, masquerading with a new label of “Progressives”.

  • Australianconservative

    Ya know, I have never read such drivel as that which comes from proudhon and fic. It seems that Proudhon thinks that she is just way too superior for the likes of Kevin as well as the other fine people who leave comments… but I notice that Proudhon does not have a clue.

    Specifically, if Proudhon follows Marx then Proudhon is a MARXIST and not a libertarian, because Marx believed in collectivism just like in Stalinist Russia. Who would want to go down that road?

    One of these two also touched on Christianity…. but was hopelessly wrong in understanding…. darn it I cannot stand the way that Christianity is hawked by some groups….

    The fact is, that individual liberty comes with accepting and obeying the 10 commands of God… yes….regardless of being Christian or Jew, it is those 10 commands which are summarized as 2 commands by Jesus – (1) Love God and (2) Love thy neighbour as thyself – that bring about true liberty.

    Marxism and what passes for libertarianism by Proudhon does not meet those 10 commands, except in a very superficial way.

    I take issue with the understanding that both FIC and Proudhon has about the levels of government (and govt taxes). There are three levels of govt – Federal, State and local. It is the same in my country. The Federal govt has a role in defense matters, and a limited role with regard to roads – think national highways. The State govts have control over things like hospitals, state roads, water, sewerage etc, they also have some say in education (my country actually differs substantially when it comes to the role of govt and education); the local govt controls the fire dept, local police, schools, libraries etc. In my country the local govt levies what is called rates and these rates cover very specific things including the pick-up of garbage and the funding of libraries. In my country the State govt has the most control over education (the local level has no control over schools). We have public schools funded by the state govt but provided out of our taxes. Watch people scream if they are asked to make a contribution. The rest of us send our children to private and Catholic schools.

    The thing is that Proudhon in claiming to be a libertarian espouses what is known as ANARCHY. Proudhon is an ANARCHIST which explains the reference to Marx, and being so proud to be a follower of Marx. ANARCHY has been around for a very long time and if Proudhon knew anything about history, then she would know that Anarchy was always punished as being treason against the State – you gotta hand it to those Inquisitors since the only ones who got the death sentence were anarchists.

    Now let’s not mix up Christian teaching with that espoused by either Proudhon or FIC. The thing is that the Scripture called for people to look after the widows and orphans on the individual level, because there was nothing at the level of the Sanhedrin. It meant that people provided for those in need out of their own means. I will use St. Paul as the prime example of what is expected in a Christian system – in one of his letters St. Paul spoke of working as a tentmaker with Priscilla and Aquila because he did not want to live off the support of others, when he was able-bodied. On the other hand, St. Paul collected money that was sent to those amongst the followers who were in great need, having no other means of support. Therein lies the difference between the nanny state and what is expected within a system that embraces both Christianity and Capitalism. Even in the time of Jesus, the capitalists amongst the followers (the wealthy) gave and provided for Jesus out of their own means. This has always been the case. However, when a govt takes over it is always the middle class that becomes impoverished and bears the unfair tax burdens as those who continue to live on welfare demand more and more, and the govt continues to crush the middle class, whilst the rich remain rich (think Michael Moore)

  • Australianconservative

    Now someone very foolishly dribbled something about Cuba and its medical system…. That person must have got the information from the piece of crap known as “Sicko” which is full of baloney.

    First off, Cuba does not have a good medical system. Only the rich benefit from the technocrat hospitals. The general populace have to get themselves to hospital, usually in a wheelbarrow; they have to take with them their own bedding and fans; and the hospitals are full of cockroaches.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Actually Jesus had His own dough. He was born pretty rich. Actually. I don’t know where the “poor baby Jesus” stuff started. The House of David wasn’t exactly the Hatfields and the McCoys. They were sort of the Windsors.

  • Australianconservative

    @jj, it is not true that Jesus had his own “dough” or that he was born rich. Joseph was a man of modest means.

    Also, at that time, it was Herod who was king, to be a member of the House of David and to disclose it would have meant death because Herod was the true usurper. So, no they were not like the Windsors at all…. where did you get such an idea…. it is not based upon what is stated in the Scripture…..

    It actually says in the Scripture that the women who accompanied Jesus and the Apostles provided for them out of their own means…… also take into consideration that John was asked to look after Mary, the mother of Jesus.

    The wealthy women were: Joanna and Mary of Magdala. I think there were a few others like Nike who were wealthy. The wealthy men were Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus…. There were probably others amongst the followers, but the majoritywere more like middle class rather than being very poor.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    I must get my ideas from someplace different from where you get your ideas. we seem to have different ideas. What are your ideas on kathy ireland getting booted from dancing with the stars?

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    regarding “anarchy.” anarchy has two exactly opposite meanings. kind of appropriate, no? – it’s even anarchistic in definition. to some it means “no government.” “no government” to most people means chaos. no government to socialist anarchists means a brief period of destruction of everything followed by one group enslaving the rest. to a “capitalist anarchist” anarchy means “order within natural justice.” in other words “no government” means “order.” to a capitalist anarchist what we have on earth NOW is chaos. But in a “natural society” there would be automatic order, justice, and phenomenal progress to a degree that the idea of being confined to living on Earth would be preposterous. so anarchy means two completely opposite things to a capitalist and a marxist. but they both use the same word. one or the other groups needs to select a new word. I would recommend the word “geefil.” I don’t know why, I just like it.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Pudhon; i was reading your insistent frantic damsel-in-distress moan to “Mick” that the three branches of govt are not federal, state and local. this tells me that you are probably a Persian and not an American. Any normal USA person would know that he was talking about the levels of government and not the branches. but you on the other hand, being a Persian, need to get all doily’n’lace about it and start prancing about with your legs pressed together at the thighs because you are going to peeeeeeee omigod omigod omigod those are not the three branches of government omigod. Douchebag.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    actually mick understated it cause there’s 4 branches, cause the local branch includes county and municipal. every American has four – 4 – governments clutching real tight and real sadistic and real perverted-like at his testicles and/ or pudendum. and if we can think of a way to squeeze a fifth one in there i have no doubt that we will cause Americans apparently Love Being Governed. what we need to do is start deleting them, starting with the Federal. Getting rid of that global-feeding-parasite will by itself raise the moral of every American to the outskirts of the solar system.

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Roosevelt…I’m not a very religious person, but, I have to say…God Bless You! It’s a shame there are not more people like you in this country.

    And JJ, thanks! Only wish there were more comments having to do with us being taxed to death instead of other topics. But, that is what makes this blog one of the best!!

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    JJ…you hit the nail on the head. Today I heard on Fox where the dems are considering another form of taxation. Believe it is similar to a consumption tax and around 5%. They want to reform the IRS. What a laugh when the dems are responsible for the mess the tax code has become.

    So, if they go with another taxing authority we’ll have the 5th as you said we would.

  • proudhon

    wow, a lot of people here post like they’re yelling into mean gene oakerland’s microphone. can we just agree up front that for any subsequent exchanges whatever typed-in-all-caps-pejorative you want to direct at me is implied? this will save us all a little time and we can cut right to the substantive stuff.

    @Marie-Jeanne Cotner, i’m not convinced we could conceive of any notion of “individual good” outside of a broader understanding of social good. if you want to name that broader social good “life, liberty & pursuit of happiness” for all, that’s fine with me. but the practical question remains, how do we define those things? does the specific way in which this society produces commodities and value impinge on that “pursuit”? for me, i say yes. therefore, any pursuit of life liberty and happiness for all has to have as an objective, the dismantling of that process (capitalism). (also: the above does not apply to you. while i’m fairly certain we don’t actually agree on much, if anything, you are at least smart and engaging and seemingly unthreatened by opinions different from your own. please take that as the compliment it was meant to be).

    @Roosevelt Moore, one of the ironies of this position you espouse is that it is exactly the same position that cloward-piven, the panthers, malcolm, amiri baraka, and many others espooused; namely, the welfare system is a disciplining institution, impeding on the poor’s otherwise natural desires to better their lot in life. the difference between you and the cloward-piven’s of the world is that you think that what the poor will do in the post-welfare state is assimilate into the ranks of the work force. the cloward-piven’s of the world assume that they will pursue their antagonistic relationship with the capitalist class to its logical conclusion, a fundamental redistribution of social resources. i am not unsympathetic to the analysis that the true political desires of the poor are retarded by the welfare state. so here, maybe you and i agree. my own position here, however, is that the meager social welfare programs that do exist in this country, while disciplinary, at least protect against the immediate threat that unfettered capitalism poses to the poor (i.e. starvation of children [the #1 recipient of tanf], etc). this is, of course, not an endorsement of the welfare state so much as it is an acknowledgment that we can’t undo it and leave capitalism in place.

    i will say that i am surprised to see you say that you’re not interested in the answers to the questions i posed. i would think that the answers to those questions would be important for the argument you are making. if nothing else it would give you a sense of scale, re: how big (or, small) the problem of welfare cheating is to the black community. it would also give you a basis for comparison when discussing the problems welfare “caused.” your personal experiences notwithstanding, when you look at the #s, it would seem that whatever abuse of tanf exist in the black community, that abuse is minuscule compared to the size of the larger black american population, the larger american population in general, and the actual us budget. there are less than 4million people (about 2/3rds children) who receive tanf aid each month. 60% of them are white. even if all of the rest were black (which they aren’t), and ALL of the adults of that remaining 40% were welfare cheats (also impossible, of course) that still only accounts for a small fraction of the black american population and a fraction of a fraction of the us budget or our tax dollars.in other words, even if everything you say is accurate (and, it isn’t) it still lacks any real explanatory power when discussing questions like why are the poor in the shape they’re in, and why is the lower middle class in this country on such shaky economic ground.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    i bet you’re a ton of fun at parties.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    The Army could use you to clear out houses in Afghanistan. Just throw you in the door and let you start talking. Everyone would run out the back screaming.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Really, Pudhole, you’d dissolve tooth decay. You’re that boringly corrosive. You are never going to make ten cents on the lecture circuit. You could describe Carmen Electra sliding naked down a stripper pole and put prisoners to sleep listening to it. Your wife, kids, parents, brother, sisters and the parrot must have all committed suicide by now. Just from pulling their hair and feathers out. Really. Nobody knows WHAT the fuck you’re talking about.You are an acid trip in reverse. Your psychedullic. They would love you at the insomnia clinic. There’d be a hundred percent cure rate. Really: you gotta pep things up with your delivery and content. It’s like reading vocabularized snoring. Mammaloosha.

  • Australianconservative

    @jj

    I have no idea as to who this katy ireland might be…. we have a different version of dancing with the stars and it is off season right now……

  • Australianconservative

    proudhon you really do talk a load of crap….the problem is that you are spouting Marxism…. and it is not reality…..

    It was Jesus who reminded the Apostles, after Judas protested the use of some very expensive perfume on Jesus that “the poor will always be with us”.

    It should not be up to Govt to have responsibility for the poor. The welfare state does nothing other than keep people in perpetual poverty, especially when there is no time limit given with regard to welfare cheques for those who are able bodied.

    During the period of the Great Depression when govt welfare was necessary because of the harshness of conditions, people had to do something in return – like sweeping the streets. Today, however, we see the unions screaming that there should be no work for the dole.

    However, I contend that working for the dole is one way of making sure that there is some kind of real stimulus for the economy, it is the concept of “taking and giving something back in return”. It also helps the self-esteem of those who cannot find work through no fault of their own.

    The other way, that is the welfare state where people take but do nothing in return only serves to keep people in poverty. There is no desire to better themselves because they are getting everything for free – no strings attached. This leads to this sense of a lack of responsibility, which is a direct result of the application of the Cloward-Piven strategy.

    The Cloward-Piven strategy was successful in bringing down New York, and in recent years it has been successful in bringing California to its knees. No good can come from these incessant demands upon the scarce resources (in this case money).

    What the modern Marxists who decry capitalism with their constant belly-aching about the capitalist (something that they fail to comprehend anyway) fail to understand is the G in the equation which is Govt receipts is also T, which is Taxation receipts. If T is increased then there will be an offset in the form of a reduction in Wages via a reduction in Employment. The reduction in employment means that there will be a reduction in Government receipts until eventually Govt cannot operate except in Deficit, which means that there is a price to be paid for that Deficit in the form of Interest which is due to the Lender….. In other words the Welfare system is unsustainable……..

    Even Govt jobs are not sustainable. If there is a reduction in T because of a decrease in W then the Govt does not have the receipts available to pay its own employees as well as shelling out for the leeches and the hangers on who prefer not working to earning income in an honest and production way.

    Production is a necessary part of any economy. If you remove the incentive to produce by using artificial means – welfare payments then in the long run you are harming the economy….. it is a vicious cycle and it is the real reason that Communism or Marxism or Socialism does not work in the real world.

  • deb

    I see the liberal Obama-led forces of destruction are converging on your site as your fame grows exponentially and your wisdom becomes more broadly revealed. There are some angry little lefties out there.

  • FA

    AustralianConservative…I love you (in a manly, fellow conservative way)

    JJ…while I still cannot get over the raw vulgarity of your blog, but you made me laugh so hard with your last comment, soda shot outta my nose (and I am drinking water!)

    Prudeshun… your drivel (i love that word!) is really getting boring.
    Your arguments are based on a non-existent and not possible world where everyone is perfect in every way.
    We have a guy like you (in that way) on my team. He rambles on for days on stuff he only knows from reading an endless supply of industry magazines and a few books merged into his very intelligent but Spock-like overly logical brain.
    Here is how we typically shut him up:
    Look at the available resources. Look at the realistic timeline. Understand the target audience. Now, with all those realities in mind, tell me how you plan in implement what you are suggesting and keep the target audience menbers (US Citizens) pleased/content without changing who they are or what they think (because you can’t).
    I think this could almost apply here. That being said, please don’t do it here. Create your own, whacky Anarcha-libratara-marxist blog and post a link. That way, those who are bored to tears with your rambling can opt not to read it or even have to scroll past it.

    Now, here’s something you’ll really enjoy!
    Your discussion about the welfare recipients are silly and doesn’t address any points that have been made. Breaking the Welfare recipients into adults and children and whites and blacks doesn’t really have anything to do with the point that the majority of the people on it are cheating/milking the system and could work. Instead they chose to be lazy bums and live off of MINE and other tax payers’ income.
    If we were to get rid of the Welfare system I can guarantee you (yeah guarantee) that the natural loving kindness (and newfound money from lower taxes) of Americans will provide private charity functions to help those who would otherwise ‘starve to death’. We already do this in forms of church-based programs like “Room at the Inn” where ALL of the people in my hometown who have no place to sleep indoors, based on some safety guidelines, are picked up by a line of church buses as far as the eye can see every night. I have never seen someone left without a place to stay. Warm bed, hot shower and great food made by little old church ladies. I have seen buses leave empty because everyone had a place. I am pretty sure this exists in communities across the country.
    See, the problem with the ‘logic’ of liberals when it comes to the poor and capatalism is that you operate under the assumption that the middle-upper class capatalists would step over those poor children as they lie starving to death in the middle of the street. We Capatalists know that we would not. We would start or contribute to PRIVATE programs to assist them. Hell, we even assist the poor and downtrodden in countries that you guys claim hate us. I’m gonna cut this short so JJ doesn’t get too upset :-)
    So…next time you start analyzing and judging capitalism, remember that you can’t do it in a vacuum, you have to include the social and human nature aspect of it…and since this is the United States of America, you have to include the American social aspect and human nature of most of us greedy conservative Americans.
    We take care of our own (read as Americans), and some of theirs too! (read as foriegn countries whether they love us or hate us) All “we” ask is that they do your part and “we’ll” do ours.
    There’s your redistribution of wealth….just let it be by choice, not by force. That, my liberal compadre, is liberty.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    thanks, australian conservative. i admit i have a lot of rough edges. i was raised by hyenas.

  • FA

    Ho-Lee-Crap. I just saw how long that was…. my deepest and humblest apologies to all of you (except PH).

  • FA

    Oh, AustralianConservative…

    Kathy Ireland is a super-hottie model-type lady from the modelling and acting arena of the US from days long past…. she is still beautiful but much older.

    She has become a strong Christian from what I’ve heard. I think the mention was referring to the liberal media empires ditching the religious freak first, but not sure.

    IMHO, I doubt it because they usually keep the religious freak around for a few episodes to appease the rest of us religious freaks. (Think every American Idol)

  • proudhon

    @FA, i’ll skip to the middle of your comment, cause i’m afraid to say i can’t follow that first part. on welfare, i can only speak from my experiences and the facts at my disposal. you want to call that “silly,” fine. but facts are facts, and the facts don’t support the thesis that tanf is the cause of the increasing economic insecurity for poor and lower middle class people. and the facts make clear that to the extent the tanf recipients are being blamed for that economic insecurity, they are being scapegoated. i brought up race in direct response to Roosevelt’s treatise on the problem with the black poor. i brought up the adult/child distinction b/c it is important to recognize that the overwhelming majority of those you are demonizing, scapegoating, calling “cheats,” etc., are children. you seem to be calling me naive because i believe in liberty. fine. but then you go on to spin this yarn about how wonderful the rich and the capitalist class would be to the poor once the welfare state goes away. well, lucky for you, we’ve got plenty of history against which you can test that thesis. how well did the poor fare in this country pre-welfare state? to reiterate, i am no great fan of welfare, and am not unsympathetic to the idea that it is a disciplinary institution quite similar to policing, but i also maintain that capitalism has and continues to do far more damage.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    You and Judas both got real big hardons for the poor, Prude Dome. In fact you two gut a LOT in common.

  • Australianconservative

    Ah now talking about Judas, and you will find mention of it in Scripture (a one liner from St. John), he was a thief. I assume from the reference given by John that Judas was caught in the act of theft.

    However, the point of bringing up Judas was to point out how Judas would make a great liberal Democrat or even a great liberal ALP person. You see, these are the people who falsely claim that they care for the poor, whilst screwing them over.

    The Scriptural example is that of the woman who comes to Jesus and anoints him with a very expensive perfume. Judas, thinking only in terms of money, feigns sympathy for the poor, and shows his disgust by claiming that the nard could have been sold and the money given to the poor. However, what Judas really meant is that the perfume or nard could have been sold, and he could have taken a cut from the proceeds.

    The funny thing about realizing that this was the modus operandii for Judas, is that it reminds me so much of the pigs at the trough that we call politicians today. Look at how the “pigs” cry out about healthcare. They laughingly tell us that “Republicans” want the people dead, yet when you look at THEIR proposals in those bills that have yet to be passed, it is actually quite obvious that it is the “little piggies at the trough” that want people dead.

    The little piggies have this notion that they are going to get money out of thin air to continue to pay the welfare benefits for those who are entrenched in their little troughs of quicksand, never being able to grab that rope and pull themselves out of the mire.

    Now Jesus gave a story of the prodigal son who ended up cleaning up the pig slops, and who finally recognized that he had to do something about his life…. this is why we need freedom to be able to act as individuals and not as a collective like in Marxism. We are the ones who need to be able to say “Enough, I want to change”. The welfare state does not allow individuals to think or to be able to take personal responsibility. Once a person is a welfare recipient, all sorts of benefits are thrown at them and there is no incentive provided to change the situation. On the other hand, a middle income earner who faces an uphill battle because of unemployment has to continue to meet the commitments for utility bills, medical, car, etc. etc. There is no help being given to that person because he or she has some money in the bank. The welfare system does not lend itself to saving…..

    In the capitalist system, there are some obvious elements that all come together that make up an economy:

    P (Production)
    T( Taxation or Govt)
    S (Savings)
    I (Investment)
    Y (Income)

    Govt takes a portion of the income earned leaving the balance as Savings (well what is left after paying for food, rent, etc. etc is savings). Those Savings in turn are used for Investment. And Investment is needed for Production.

    If govt is taking more than what is just or fair then all of the other elements will eventually fail. When people are overtaxed then money is not available from Savings to create Investment. It is a continuing cycle.

    What it really means though, is if you have the piggies in the trough sucking on the teat of govt, then these piggies are not contributing to the general welfare of the community as a whole. These are the piggies that are the takers…. they never give anything back in return. They seem to think that people own them a living and that it is ok to steal from da man…. the thing is, that if you steal from da man, then the money supply is shrinking…. this is what is wrong with the socialist state…. those who are constantly taking give nothing back in return.

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @proudhon I am going to assume that you just don’t understand how capitalism works because I refuse to believe that someone could be that stupid. Here, for the last time, is how the Democrats keep blacks in chains. Capitalism works when everyone does their part. Welfare is supposed to be a TEMPORARY MEANS OF SUPPORT FOR THOSE UNABLE TO WORK. Do you understand that? TEMPORARY. The Democrats were and are the rich white slaveowners from the past. If the blacks somehow managed to work and keep their money, they would no longer need the Democrats. The Democrats are not willing to give up their power so they constantly make up or maintain classes of “victims”. Under the pretext of helping, they trap unsuspecting members, blacks, in a concentrated area. They do all in their power to keep them under the spell of getting something for nothing. Imagine what would happen if the blacks were allowed to earn as much as anyone else. (They already are but they won’t because they don’t have the proper incentive) Here are some numbers for you to ponder. There are approximately 34 million people in this country on welfare or some other type of government freebie. There are 12 to 20 million illegals in this country. If you don’t think this is intentional, explain to me why the government, Democrat and Republican, won’t deport the illegals and force the freebie getters to go to work. Are you too stupid to understand the ramifications of 12 to 20 million new taxpayers? Are you too obtuse to understand how far that would go towards shrinking the amount of money paid out by the government in freebies? Are you really incapable of understanding the reduction in cost of health care, criminal activity and various other items that are now being paid out at our expense? I will leave you with this true story from here in Florida. A few years back, Jeb Bush (That’s right, the brother of former President)made drastic changes in the way welfare was paid out in Florida. It gave recipients two years to get training and a job. It punished single women for having more kids out of wedlock. You had to prove that you were, in fact, eligible to receive benefits. Well, the Democrats hollered and screamed about starving children, people dying in the streets, you know, the usual crap that they spew when they see their votes being taken away. Guess what happened? He passed it anyway and the welfare rolls were cut in half!!! Did you hear that? The government saved half of what they were paying out in benefits. Nobody died, the rate of children being born out of wedlock was cut by more than half, and the unemployment rate among blacks went way down. So, guess what? You can sit there and spew garbage about capitalism not working but I know better. So does anyone else with half a brain. Guess that leaves you out huh?

  • Ed

    Kevin now that you’ve actually gotten the attention of opposing viewpoint I would agree with another poster, you need to create a chatroom as this is what’s happening here.

    @proudhon, you know the great thing about our country is you can go live in Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, China or any other Socialist/Marxist/Communist country of your choice.
    I came here from the Soviet Union (back when it was that, under Brezhnev) I asked dad what he got me for my 10th birthday which was the day we left the border and his answer was simple “freedom”. I know it’s hard for small minded people like yourself to understand such a grand concept but it was enough even for a 10 year old to understand. I have after all seen KGB searches at our house and knew my dad did what he could to provide for his family. He had a second car that he had to register in his brothers name since if he lived better than the neighbors it meant he was cheating. That type of totalitarian rule can’t allow for free thinkers or much less for free enterprise, why do you think we’re here.
    I always find IDIOTS like you and most Progressives rather ignorant because you’ve never seen the system you advocate firsthand. I still have class pictures from there with Lenin and Marx pictures in the background, I could email them to you, so you can see how similar they are to the currend regime indoctrination of our (now my) kids. This is something I will never forget and much like my dad brought me to a better life I will do everything in my power to preserve it for my kids. Capitalism is not for everyone, I agree, only for the people that dream of better. I believe some have termed it as the AMERICAN DREAM.
    In closing I can tell you that it is much easier to travel to another country from here than to come here from a Communist Country, you have an advantage so get to it!!!

  • Australianconservative

    The best welfare system is one where people have to give back in some way. This is how it worked in the Great Depression. You worked for the dole. That is how it should be today…. there are a lot of able-bodied people who are too shiftless to work…. There are plenty of small projects that would make these people productive.

    Working for the dole gives people dignity. Claiming welfare benefits and doing nothing in return lowers self-esteem. It creates a society where people want to take but never give in return. That is the opposite of a Christian society.

  • Australianconservative

    and I still maintain that Proudhon does not have a clue when it comes to economics and how capitalism really works…..

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Forcing people to be charitable ain’t exactly Christian either.

  • Australianconservative

    @ jj

    I agree that forcing the “charity” is not Christian.

    This is the problem that when govt takes over, there are inequities and it is the middle class that suffers as a result of these inequities….. it is pay, pay, pay…. and continue to pay…..

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Australian….during the late 80’s and early 90’s many communities would assign people receiving unemployment benefits to public works type jobs and other areas throughtout the community. It was quite successful and was a big savings for the communities that participated. But, it just fizzled out. Never heard another thing about it. The report issued claimed the experiment was a success.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ9Te1XP8RM Sean

    Holy crap, Roosevelt. Nice work.

  • proudhon

    @Roosevelt Moore, yeah it seems like we do have competing understandings of capitalism. you think “Capitalism works when everyone does their part,” while i think capitalism just fine with 10, 20, 30% unemployment. in fact, when everybody does their part, assuming by that you mean everyone is employed, capitalism doe pretty poorly.

    and yes, i do understand that tanf is temporary (that’s what the “t” stands for). what you attribute to jeb bush is actually his implementation of the federal 1996 personal responsibility and work opportunity act (aka, clinton’s “welfare reform”), which has seen the # of people on the welfare roles in this country (not just florida) reduced to 1/3rd of what they were in 1996. that’s part of my point, btw, that 1) in the scheme of things, the #’s are not that big and the cost is peanuts compared to what else your tax dollars are spent on, and 2) this massive reduction in the welfare roles over the last 14 years — which has seen a dramatic reduction of “the amount of money paid out by the government in freebies” (assuming by “freebies” you mean the cash aid that the fed pays out through tanf) — has done nothing to bolster the economic standing of the lower middle class in this country. in other words, if welfare reform has taught us anything, it’s that the urban underclasses are not the ones responsible for declining wages and economic instability amongst the lower middle class. that probably has a lot more to do with de-industrialization, liberalization of capital, etc. if your interest is in recovering some economic stability and to stop the “shrinking” of the middle class, your beef is not with the 4 million people on the welfare roles (btw, where does that 36million figure come from. the # of people receiving a cash “handout” from the federal gov’t through tanf is 4million, most of them children).

    you write as if you think *most* black people in this country are ghetto-dwelling welfare recipients. it should go without saying that that is patently false. you also seem to think that the dems support some far reaching welfare program for urban black folk and that the maintenance of that massive welfare program is what is keeping dems in power. i say, look at what the dems have been doing to welfare since the clinton administration. this history’s been written, look it up. dems have gutted welfare. they, like their republican peers, are far more interested these days in locking black folks up. what’s keeping dems in power is the demographic reality that the u.s. is becoming more racially and ethnically diverse, and becoming more urban / cosmopolitan. its the significant voting power of this coalition of working class non-whites and middle/upper-middle white liberals who vote dems into office. you say they are invested in the systematic underdevelopment of the black ghetto out of some desire to keep these folks loyal to their agenda, i say dems are completely indifferent to the suffering of those underdeveloped parts of black america. dems have very little political investment in urban blacks living in poverty (nefarious, or otherwise), in part because they represent such a small part of the electorate. i know you have this nice conspiracy theory going here, but just think about the #s: there’s a fairly significant # of these folks who are disenfranchised (depending on the state) b/c of draconian laws about felons voting. there’s a significant # who are not registered (remember, this is why you guys hate acorn so much, they’ve made a career of registering these folks). and many are registered but just don’t give enough of a shit to vote, in part b/c of the profound indifference either party has shown toward them. as far as i can tell, the dems are far more interested in courting the votes of working class and lower-middle class blacks than they are in courting the votes of blacks living in poverty, and they’re more interested in other people of color (those whose populations are increasing) than they are in blacks, in general.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    kathy ireland was dumped because she cant keep time to music. Not because she loves Jesus.

  • FA

    Yeah, jj, my wife pointed that out as well…. She said the only one worse than her was that ex-politician. I guess the pimply-faced horny geek males of yesteryear just dont watch the show..or vote.

  • Roosevelt Moore

    @proudhon Apparently I was wrong about my assumption that you don’t understand capitalism. I guess you really are ignorant concerning facts that are right in front of your face. Take out a map and look at all of the predominantly black neighborhoods that you can think of. Then, if you can, look at the ones ran mostly by Democrats. Good example, New Orleans. The Democrats have run New Orleans for the last 40+ years. Are you not smart enough to see that if the Democrats wanted to get the blacks out of poverty it would have been done in New Orleans by now? Up until lately there were no Republican politicians with any kind of power in New Orleans. Hurricane Katrina, as deadly as it was, exposed how great the Democrats were running that city. You find any city in the United States ran by Democrats and I will show you a ghetto filled with mostly blacks who can’t afford to move out.
    Secondly, you have just proven my most important fact. NO MATTER WHAT FORM OF FREEBIE YOU TALK ABOUT, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN YOUR DAILY LIFE. THEY SHOULD NOT BE YOUR SOURCE OF INCOME. THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GIVE THEM THE AUTHORITY TO GET INVOLVED IN ANYONE’S PERSONAL LIFE BY TAKING MY MONEY TO GIVE IT TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE.
    No one in this country should be looking to the government for sustainance. If enough people get this idea through their head, the Democrats will be finished. They know that and are making sure that they always have victims to fight for. You give me one example of the Democrats helping one of their classes of victims and I will prove to you that they trampled someone elses’ rights to do it. Common sense would tell you that you don’t help one group at the expense of another. But by constantly doing that very thing, the Democrats stay visible as a political party. You need to learn these things and hopefully before you post another lame brained idea.

  • FA

    “and the facts don’t support the thesis that tanf is the cause of the increasing economic insecurity for poor and lower middle class people.”
    Sure they do…. You have 10 welfare moms who, after having 1 baby at 14 and get onto the welfare gravy train, quickly realize that they’d get more money by having 2 or even 4! And if you just sit them in front of the TV all day or let the school and the streets worry about them, you can feed them happy meals for less than what you get for them from Uncle Sam!
    So now you have 10 moms with 40 babies. Let’s be generous and say 1 of those kids from each mom grows up to make something of themselves, even if its lower-middle class. Based on THE NUMBERS, as you’d put it, 1 in 4 would die before reaching age 25, leaving 2 to become welfare babies themselves. (By the way, i’m not talking just black… if you go to Kentucky you can find the poorest county in the US and it’s population, albeit small, is 99% caucasian. I’ve been there with my church. We provided clothes, books and gave some families running water.)
    So let’s recap:
    10 moms x 4 babies each = 40 kids.
    10 die, 10 go on to become part of the working class at whatever level.
    That means there are 20 ‘welfare mentality’ kids to start the next generation.
    I do believe that means that having a nice, cushy, easy to cheat welfare system DOES perpetuate and grow the problem… in this example, it doubles with every generation. (Actual numbers are at about 200% increase (triple), but natural attrition lowers the actual population, and it is important to note that the generation in this community is closer to 16 years than 20 that ius typically used).

    “…but then you go on to spin this yarn about how wonderful the rich and the capitalist class would be to the poor once the welfare state goes away. well, lucky for you, we’ve got plenty of history against which you can test that thesis. how well did the poor fare in this country pre-welfare state?”
    – This “yarn being spun” has already been made into hundreds of millions of sweaters and socks and food and other stuff that have been given to hundreds of millions of poor across the country and the globe.
    Your question is rediculous by the way…pre-welfare state which was what? The 1920s?
    we didn’t have the ability to easily travel and distribute charitable donations back then. People gave what they could within their community OUT OF CHOICE and the kindness of their hearts. Were there a few rich tyrants, sure! Most of the ones that exist today are rich, racist elitist democrats, but I digress…
    Sorry, we don’t need to look to history to figure out what people would do, we can just look at the present. ‘Religious Organizations’ (not just Christian) give more to charity than oshmana’s handout and the welfare system combined…it would take just a tiny bump to cover that too…the point is it is by choice, not by force.
    Welfare, as well as almost ANY government spending is FORCING people to pay for something, whether they want to or not.
    (I can just sense that you’ll make some absurd statement like ‘if we are all left to decide what to pay for and what not to pay for, nobody would pitch in’.
    That is the same mentality most people on welfare have…

  • proudhon

    @Roosevelt Moore, i really don’t know what to say. you’ve demonstrated in each of your posts to me that you are married to this convoluted conspiracy theory, where you (willfully?) mistake consequence for cause and where you maintain a fierce indifference to the facts. i can’t argue with that. i will concede that in this case kevin’s wall analogy is an apt one. let’s agree that we have nothing else to say to each other.

    @FA there’s no need to run a bunch of hypothetical and baseless numbers. the real data is right there for you to look at. if you are interested in the facts, just look them up. you’ll see that the welfare roles are not growing exponentially with each successive generation. they’re shrinking.

    look, do i want to live in a society where people are compelled to help their neighbors by state force? of course not. but capitalism 1) needs a reserve of unemployed labor, so there will always be a segment of the population who are underdeveloped by this economy 2) capitalism works from a rational impulse to drive wages down, which means that, among other things, recovered tax dollars from a post-welfare state would more often than not, flow upward not downward, into the pockets of the capitalist class 3) capitalism produces a social logic that dis-incentivizes the mutual aid you describe. i would love to live in a world where our mutual aid was our paramount social concern. but we don’t get there by cutting scapegoating the poor and cutting taxes. we don’t get there by adopting the values of the capitalist class, and blaming people who are slightly poorer than us while allying ourselves with people who are monumentally wealthier than us. we don’t get there by perpetuating these lies that somehow the dems are the only rich white elite party. we get there through fundamental transformation of the political economy — a process that will not be facilitated by either tax policy or by partisan politics.

  • Jim Schurmann

    FA
    Some good points.Proudhon how is that anti Capitalism working out in Cuba?

  • FA

    Please stop saying tanf. that is one of MANY MANY government ‘hand-out’ programs that we typically for conversational purposes refer to as “Welfare” programs. While your numbers may or may not be correct with regards to that one program, it is not true for the “Welfare Programs” as a whole. Instead of sitting at home alone reading statistics produced by people are sponsored by people with a vested interest in skewing the numbers their way, go experience it first hand.The masters of ‘stickin it to the man’ or ‘perpetual laziness’ have figured out how to suck resources from a vast array of gov’t freebie programs without lifting much more than a finger.

    Before you utter another word on your ‘opinion’ of what capitalism is, please go read this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
    While they do say politicians and economists disagree on a few things, focus on the things on which they do agree.

    Some of my favorite quotes:
    “…it is the only morally valid socio-political system because it allows people to be free to act in their rational self-interest.”
    – that very accurately describes the “Me” aspect of capitalism.

    “Notable critics of capitalism have included: socialists, anarchists, communists, technocrats, some forms of conservatism, Luddites, Narodniks, some schools of nationalism and Shakers” – Wow, hit that nail on the head, didn’t they….

    You only seem to want to address the political and corporate aspect of capitalism, while ignoring the social and economic aspects. To say that Capitalism requires unemployment is a total contradiction of the definition of the word…to be continued…

  • FA

    My hypothetical numbers are based in fact. The numbers are right there. Go read them. Of the group in this country taking gov’t handouts, the average # of children is 4. You said it yourself, of the “4 million” just on the tanf program, most of them are children. That’s 80% kids (4 kids 1 parent).
    They aren’t shrinking across all government programs, they’re just shifting to programs other than tanf. (using your numbered statements)
    1) Capitalism does NOT require any sustained unemployment.
    2) Capitalism does not care about the actual wage iteself, it is all relative. If the average joe get paid $100 an hour, paying $50 for a gallon of milk is fine. If they get paid $10 an hour paying $5 for a gallon of mil is also fine.
    Capitalism is about a steady balance of people’s income and companies’ products.
    3) If Capitalism were allowed to thrive today (barring all the unsightly transitional issues), America would morph into a place where the harder you work (smarter you are, whatever) the more you would make. The lazy would starve and eventually get a job or be fed in prison (from stealing food or whatever). The needy (not the same as the lazy) would be taken care of, as they are mostly today, by the generosity of their loving neighbors and fellow Americans. They would. If you don’t believe me, you must live in one shit-hole of a neighborhood in south LA or something. I’ve lived all over this great country and while maybe 1 in 50 people I meet are complete selfish pricks, the other 49 would help someone truly in need, even the shirt off their backs if necessary. That is enough to cover all needy people in America. Why it doesn’t happen now is another story…

    I am sorry you have such little faith in your fellow Americans and basically human beings in general. I am sorry you think that more like 49 in 50 of us are selfish pricks. Come to my city (pop. ~1.2mil). While I won’t say nobody sleeps on the streets, we have good PRIVATE programs that keep all of the needy’s needs met and even take care of most of the lazy (or druggie/alchie/whatevers).

  • FA

    Sorry, just a side note… I’ve volunteered for most of the programs we have for the lazy/addition people and they aren’t enabling, they work to recoup, recover, retrain so that hopefully they will develop the self worht and self confidence they need to get a job, stay clean and become a ‘productive member of this community’.

  • proudhon

    what % of people i think are “selfish pricks” is completely irrelevant. i’m not making an argument about people’s capacity to help or empathize with one another. i am saying that capitalism is exploitative, undemocratic, and that underdevelopment / poverty is a necessary consequence of capitalism. beyond that, what i am saying is that capitalism has a social logic. whatever natural predilection we have toward helping one another — and i do believe we are inherently social beings — is fundamentally retarded by the capitalist process. what % of people i think are “selfish pricks” is completely irrelevant. i’m not making an argument about people’s capacity to help or empathize with one another. what i am saying is that by capitalism’s social logic any moment of charity is irrational.

    i feel like you’re arguing semantics here if you think i’m talking about the “actual wage.” i said capital has a rational impulse to drive wages down. would it be better if i said, capitalism has a rational impulse to maximize its share of the surplus value? and we both know that full employment is bad for capitalism.

    finally, you are not paying attention to the facts if you are claiming that tanf is growing, or if you are claiming that the federal government is issuing more cash to the impoverished today than they were, say, 20 yrs ago.

  • proudhon

    @Jim: apples and oranges. we’re better than the choice between two failed systems.

  • FA

    Trying to be short and in the order of your comments:
    You are agrueing wholistic theory against real world…remember the imaginary world comment which confused you earlier. No thinking being is going to implement the economic capitalist ideals into their societal interactions. The term Capitalist has different meanings when applied to: Potitics, Economy, Society, Individual. the four merged together is what works well. Every time Dems get into office they try to screw with one or more of the 4 and open holes for the ‘selfish pricks’ to take advantage of the system at hte expense of others.

    Jeez, its hard to not be verbose when you know the reader/responder is going to nit pick you every word, use vague responses and pretend that real life can actually be represented with numbers generated from surveys and samplings.

    Nevermind…. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that you live as a capitalist anyway.

  • FA

    For the record….

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
    Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

    Benjamin Franklin, I choose liberty.

  • Australianconservative

    It seems that Proudhon is sprouting Marxist drivel. In fact some of the wording is directly out of Das Kapital.

    Specifically, the Marxist drivel is that Capitalism needs to have an exploitive level of unemployed labour. This just goes to show that Proudhon does not have a clue.

    Let’s look at some real facts here regarding Production and for that matter Capital.

    Basic economics states that we have a model of Supply and Demand. This model exists in all forms of economy: Monopoly, Oligopoly and the free market economy. Within each national economy you will have goods and services where there is a lack of competition.

    In fact where there is a lack of competition it is the employer (GOVT) that can regulate both supply and demand and set the price. Without competition the price of the product can remain artificially high. A good example of an OLIGOPOLY is that of OIL where the OPEC manipulates both the price and the numbers of barrels that are produced and the impact is to keep the price of oil artificially high. This is a detriment to most users of the oil. In a market where there is competition (there is no such thing as perfect competition), more and more competitors will join in the market which will lead to a price drop. A good example of this in practice is the price of computers (not so much the software) which has dropped substantially over a period of more than 20 years.

    There is always a need for some Govt regulation but there is no real need for govt to enter into most of those markets since Govt itself tends to be inefficient.

    The thing about the labour market is that there is always a lag between the supply and demand for skills. If there is a high demand and a low supply for certain skills e.g. accountants, then the price paid to those with the skills will be high. However, the high price for labour encourages people to attempt to enter into the workforce by acquiring the skills necessary to perform the task. Since there is a lag, as more and more people acquire those skills there comes a point when the market is saturated and that in turn forces the price of that labour to drop…..

    However, what we see happening is that when labour becomes unionized there are inefficiencies that remain in the system as more and more demands are being made, followed by the action of withdrawl of labour in order to force the employers to accept the terms demanded. When the employers give in, what then happens is that the industry itself becomes inefficient. When Govt steps in and then regulates terms and conditions such as making it impossible to sack a thief then further inefficiences are added into the mix….. this in turn will lead to employers seeking new ways to get the work done e.g. the use of robots or the use of containers on the wharves. As a result of these changes Employment is decreased and more people lose their jobs permanently. The other consequence of the union action is to see the industries move off shore.

    When it comes to the work that needs to be done at the lower end of the employment scale, well that work normally goes to those who are unskilled. As more people attempt to gain skills it will lead to a decrease in the size of that pool, and the response to that situation is usually to allow a flow of immigrants who are unskilled so that they take over these jobs.

    Govt interference in market forces has created enormous problems in economies around the world. Once govt slackened the rules on immigratration, allowing unskilled migrants to enter into an economy where unskilled jobs are drying up (the U.K. is a good example), the end result is that there is a massive increase in the level of unemployment.

    As for communist countries where there has been experiments with Marxism, most have failed, completely failed with regard to their collectivism. In the 1930s and 1940s for example the Russians ended up starving when their crops failed. Right up until the 1980s the people queued for hours just to get a loaf of bread. This is because of the govt control over the means of production.

    Capitalism is a far better system any day than the greedy communist system where the elite become rich off the backs of the people who are forced into crowded accommodation, and whose daily lives are so fully controlled.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    Ya know, prude dumb – kevin’s right. you need to go. you are even exhausting me and i can get a rise out of anyone. but you are, like, petrified – emotionally, mentally,spiritually; you’re like some sort of machine with the on button stuck from 1855 or something. Do you know what an xbox 360 is? or an ipod? or anything? this droniing dreary Marx-Engles sludge, Holy Mother of God Almighty and the angels and the saints, you’re like a damn zombie. You make Obama sound like Einstein. And Obama can’t even dance, much less think. you’re less reactive than a Jehova’s Witness. They need to recruit you. Can you imagine having YOU come to the door?? “OK, ok!! I’ll join!! How much you want, a million bucks every month? Fine! Now leave!!” That 144,000 head-count would be met in five minutes, you’d have so many new recruits into Kingdom Hall.

  • Roosevelt Moore

    I told you all that proudhon has some mental deficiency or he refuses to believe the truth. I saw a Russian KGB defector in a video not long ago. He said that the people in this country have been dumbed down so much that if he took them to Russia and showed them the concentration camps, they would still come back and say they don’t exist. This is what I believe is wrong with proudhon. How can you look at any ghetto and believe that the people live there by choice? How does he think these people will ever get out of the situation they are in? Have you ever heard of an alcoholic quitting until HE wanted to quit? No. The black population will never advance out of poverty until they decide that the government is not their provider. When they start to take responsibility for their own lives, when they realize that they are the only ones that can get them out of the system, when they realize that they don’t need anybody’s help they will get out. When they stop blaming “the white man” for the problems they bring upon themselves (crime, children out of wedlock, drugs, etc, etc) They will start to excel. Yes our ancestors were brought here forcefully, yes slavery was bad and we had some issues in the 60’s. However, THOSE DAYS ARE GONE. GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO TO WORK. Stop trying to get something for nothing because you will always get that, nothing!

  • proudhon

    @Australianconservative, don’t confuse state command economies for communism — i’m not here to defend despots. i don’t disagree with your basic description of supply and demand, for the most part. in fact, your take seems decidedly un-conservative. i mean, you said, “There is always a need for some Govt regulation.” i wonder how that squares with some of your compatriots here. i’m also confused by how you square the desire for a strong state to tamp down immigration with this belief that the state shouldn’t meddle. i mean, this is the reason illegal immigration is so tolerated: it satisfies capitalism’s need for a large pool of completely insecure labor that drives “costs” down.

    nothing you say challenges my basic point, that capitalism’s internal logic is to drive the price of labor down within the market. your boss is intrinsically motivated to pay you as little as s/he can get away with, that’s a fact and it’s called exploitation. i don’t see anything that you’ve written there that disputes that. in fact, you tacitly make that point in your (completely misguided) effort to pin the blame of economic insecurity on organized labor.

    @FA, not sure i have much else to say in response to you, except that i don’t understand the general indifference you and everyone else here seems to have to “NUMBERS” or the actual data that could support or undermine these grand elaborate polemics you all seem to spout out.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    pudnuts: an employer doesnt exploit a worker by paying him little. he makes an offer of a job at a price – which is the employer’s property – and the worker either says ok or no thanks. it’s called liberty and freedom. you – being a thieving prick – think that an employer is your slave. but you need to have a cop – some third party who knows neither of you – effect the coercion. you’re basically a looter. that’s why we all hate you here. we’re honest people. and you’re a thug without the balls to do the crime yourself. you have your beloved State do it. So fuck you, you little weasly prick. jj solari

  • Dana

    Okay. That’s it. It was good the short time it lasted but honestly I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE! I tried to read through the posts and just skip the boxes that Proud posts, but you people keep responding to him so to understand your posts I am forced to read Proud’s. And I swear I try to understand it, but I just can’t stay focused on his words. And I’m one smart cookie too!

    So, I’ll get on to read Kevin’s blogs but won’t bother with the responses anymore. What’s the point?

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    JJ that was an excellent example you used to explain liberty and freedom of the job offer from the employer to the employee. Doubt seriously that it’ll have any effect because of her/his plain stupidity.

    Danasays: concur 100%. How nice it would be in Proudhon just went away. But, doubt this will happen because she/he is nothing but an ignoramous.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    proudhon’s a riot. he’s all concerned about the worker. none of these marxists, dirt-covered proletarian ideologists ever have jobs. because they’re all shitty employees. they never actually do anything on the job. they can’t be hired because they steal time and property of the employer because they think they are being exploited just by virtue of not owning their own business. they think everything that belongs to someone else is theirs. if they do have a job they never show up on time, they file grievances every ten seconds, they pilfer, they backstab, they whine, they parade their “rights” around, they scream oppression even though everyone else is doing their work for them, they lie about other employees, they sabotage the workplace: they’re criminals with a philosophy. they’re unemployable. so they figure out a way to make employment extinct. and they all have an enthusiastic ally in the State because the State is ALSO unemployable. It never actually DOES anything, just like a bad employee, except make it impossible for anyone else to get any work done. Pudendahon is like a slithering human leech, contaminating everyone he comes in contact with with a spiritual contagion and a demoralizing, energy-sucking virus of
    some death-like existence leading to extinction. I’m surprised he aint running for office, that’s where he belongs, in a legalized demoralizing raiding party.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    you need to find a woman pud hut. those are the ones without the things between their legs that you’re most comfortable with.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    haha it always comes down to the roads with you reetards. this tells me that you dont have a car or even a bicycle. otherwise you’d know that the roads could be better built and maintained by the geezers obama wants to kill with his witch doctor medicine plan than by the DOT. That’s Department of Transportation pudnuts, the people who denied you a driver’s license. so they did something right at least. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • FA

    Ya know, funny thing is….I’ve read every one of these post for the last 5 blogs, some a couple of times, and not once does anyone say, “We think the poor people are to blame” or “If poor people weren’t cheating the system, the world would be a significantly better place”.
    While you, ph, can’t seem to stop rambling on and on about us making the poor scapegoats, we are saying that the dirtbag dems that want big gov’t programs, like welfare programs, in place are to blame.
    So please stop arguing that we are making the poor into scapegoats. We aren’t talking about the poor. even when anyone here mentioned the poor, we were talking about the programs and the liberal democrat racists that put those programs into place and the liberal democrat racists that keep those programs in place in order to maintain that bullsh*t belief that they are out to ‘help’ the poor.
    Everyone I’ve read on this blog (except you and that other nitwit) has put the politicians and policymakers into that scapegoat category…except they arent scapegoats, they are criminals.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    screw it. shoot the poor. then eat them. oh wait: that’s Obamacare. never mind. the kenyan in chief’s got it covered. my bad. HAHAHAHA “Obamacare: Greening the planet one Soylent at a time.” HAHAHAHAHAHA

  • Roosevelt Moore

    Kevin, would you please block proudhon so the rest of us can carry on an intelligent conversation?

  • http://www.theblacksphere.net Mick

    Simply stated Proudhon you have to be one of the dumbest people on Kevin’s blog. How many times and how many people do you have to be asked by to leave……we don’t want you, we don’t like you and we don’t want to listen to your bullshit anymore! You remind me of one of those creatures on the SciFi Channel that do nothing but foam from the mouth!! Just leave!!!

    Thank you. We all thank you!!

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    I, Proudhon, realize that the intellects residing here, interposed as they are with hyperbole and semantic rhetoric retrograded and vilified inordinantly and bicuspidally without proper regard for the dehumanizing insulacrities of fasthumousness, realize as a coordinate but not subordinate mandate infrastructured via homily and hummus and rye, four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie that mordantly the moody river thwartedly, land of eighted night, moody river your muddy waters stolded my baby’s life. Thank you.

  • http://jjsolari.com jj solari

    I, Proudhon, finding that I am unable to continue masturbating while reading JJ Solari’s remarks because I have now scar-tissued all the sinews on the right side of my arm, have decided to sell all of my acne medicines and with the money I earn from exploiting myself purchase an algorithm from a Russian friend of mine and hack into the Chelsea Handler blog, on which she insults Lady GaGa, Lindsay Lohan, and my favorite wannabe negro, Eminem. This must stop if the workers are to ever realize their just rewards. I know that you must all think that I am mad. But I am not mad. And you will all soon learn that I am not mad. I am PROUDHON!! ANARCHIC PHILOSOPHER OF THE 19TH CENTURY!! LYSANDER SPOONER THINKS HE IS ME AS DOES MADAME BLAVATSKY!! THEY, ALONG WITH JACK PARSONS WILL SOON LEARN THE TRUTH!! This blog must be stopped because black people will see a better truth model in Kevin Jackson than they see in Bill Clinton, King of the Negroes, and the oppressed negroes of America who will be my Revolutionary Army, throwing themselves in front of tank treads for me, PROUDHON, THE ARISTOTLE OF THE FUTURE will suddenly not be there anymore. They will be following Kevin. So I must infect this blog to the best of my ability. Though I have not shown much ability so far. What’s new, story of my life. Thank you. Sincerely, Proudhon, stalker of dead social philosophers.

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  • True rumor

    Black Power!!!!!! and the white men know it us African americans had everything intill the white man took it. We had gold, freedom, and was kings and if you really know your history we invented a lot of things that was needy, but the white man was greedy stole our ideas and proclaimed it as theirs and what reason should the white man hate blacks for because it was a black man who broke in my car… Get real any race will committ a crime and would'nt care if you was black or white. Amen. Black Power. Amen

    • auntiemadder

      Tell the truth. You're a 16 year old white kid, aren't you?

      • True rumor

        nope im a 18 year old African american who happens to know a lot about history

        • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

          Yep, you certainly know all there is to know about the world! LOL

    • http://www.theblacksphere.net Kevin Jackson

      LOL! You are getting robbed by your Liberal black leaders and you are talking about things stolen to which you know nothing about. Next you will tell me you originated from royalty?

      • True rumor

        Kevin I notice you have a great talent for being a comedian I see, and I do originate from a family that had royalty it call checking your background and finding out something you would'nt know about even at your age, but Kevin I dont think you remember when it was hard for blacks to have voting rights without getting bit , sprayed or even badly beaten just because walking down the street with a sign saying let me vote. Now I know you probably thinking that i'm still getting robbed by Liberal black leaders so therefore that's telling me you think with a narrow mind and is not open-minded and no it's not just about voting us blacks did'nt have nothing when we came to america YOU KNOW WHAT IT TOOK KEVIN!!!……. do you really know what it took was you there in them days to see what it really took no so therfore we learn off history you what you are ignorant.

    • http://batman-news.com art

      sorry blacks sold blacks to the white devil just like bloods and crips kill each other and if slavery was still legal well they would have yard sales

  • Vince

    To me he's like a teen given the keys to his father's Porsche 930 Turbo. No, not the modern one with stability and traction control, the circa 1980's one with menacing handling.